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Old 10-03-2017, 10:10 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Neither do guns.
Right. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Heard it a million times, and it's true. But he would have killed a whole lot less with a bolt action .270
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:15 PM   #102
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The shooter was smart, and somewhat innovative in his attack. He also had a pilots license and lots of money and time. I think he could have used black guns and over the counter modification for a reason.

He shot and killed a bunch of rednecks.

Then got the government to take the rednecks black guns.



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Old 10-03-2017, 10:16 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
Right. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Heard it a million times, and it's true. But he would have killed a whole lot less with a bolt action .270
He could have killed a whole lot more by filling one of his airplanes with gasoline and crashing into the crowd. What now? Ban airplanes. Remember 911?
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:16 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
Right. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Heard it a million times, and it's true. But he would have killed a whole lot less with a bolt action .270
I beg to differ. With some 22,000 targets so close together, in the 9-10 minutes of shooting, I don't think 59 would be that unreasonable with an accurate rifle. Hell, how many did Oswald get off in just a few seconds?
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:20 PM   #105
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He could have killed a whole lot more by filling one of his airplanes with gasoline and crashing into the crowd. What now? Ban airplanes. Remember 911?
But he didn't. And post 9-11, they took drastic new security measures to prevent that. What new measures do you approve here?

Ps. Nice to have a civilized debate. Nothing personal.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:26 PM   #106
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But he didn't. And post 9-11, they took drastic new security measures to prevent that. What new measures do you approve here?

Ps. Nice to have a civilized debate. Nothing personal.
Remember OKC and Timothy McVeigh? Not one shot fired. The possession of fertilizer is not even a constitutional right.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:27 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
The shooter was smart, and somewhat innovative in his attack. He also had a pilots license and lots of money and time. I think he could have used black guns and over the counter modification for a reason.

He shot and killed a bunch of rednecks.

Then got the government to take the rednecks black guns.



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I'm thinking this is a logical motive, if he was inclined left politically.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:33 PM   #108
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Why have that many guns of different calibers? It would much easier to use the same rounds, mags, same optics, etc. Why are the pics of the guns being leaked?


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Old 10-03-2017, 10:37 PM   #109
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But he didn't. And post 9-11, they took drastic new security measures to prevent that. What new measures do you approve here?

Ps. Nice to have a civilized debate. Nothing personal.
Unfortunately there are risks living in a free society. I don't support any new measures to legislate inanimate objects.

Ps. agreed.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:38 PM   #110
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Why have that many guns of different calibers? It would much easier to use the same rounds, mags, same optics, etc. Why are the pics of the guns being leaked?


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Good question. Maybe so people would push to have them banned, as evidenced on this very thread.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:35 PM   #111
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Default Las Vegas Mass Shooting

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Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
But he didn't. And post 9-11, they took drastic new security measures to prevent that. What new measures do you approve here?



Ps. Nice to have a civilized debate. Nothing personal.


Airline travel isnít in the BOR and isnít an essential part of the individualism America was founded on.


Why can someone just walk into a liquor store, by beers and liquor, have ten drinks, get behind the wheel and kill a family? No one needs more than 1 drink. Drunk driving is already illegal but that doesnít seem to stop people. Government should protect us and make it illegal to buy more than one drink.


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Old 10-03-2017, 11:42 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
But he didn't. And post 9-11, they took drastic new security measures to prevent that. What new measures do you approve here?

Ps. Nice to have a civilized debate. Nothing personal.
He owned his own planes. Do you think you go thru metal detectors and airport security when you go fly your own compact plane? Nope. Absolutely zero security. If a mass killing was his sole agenda, he could've loaded the plane with any flammable liquid and crashed into that concert and killed 10 times as many people. He could have easily killed 100+ just by crashing it into a crowd that size. This whole deal smells fishy.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:43 PM   #113
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gun CONTROL does not mean taking away guns ....


So what do you propose that would have stopped this shooting in particular?


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Old 10-03-2017, 11:53 PM   #114
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So what do you propose that would have stopped this shooting in particular?


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Nothing.

If it really happened how we've been told this far, he'd of found 10 other ways to kill people. It's not the device of the user that's the problem, it's the user of the device.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:55 PM   #115
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Literally billions on firearms never get used in homicides or any illegal act.
Millions own them.
The number of people that use them for illegal activity is massively dwarfed by those that dont.
Punishing the law abiding for the acts of an EXTREME minority is like killing all dogs because one breed attacks it's owners on a regular basis.

Doesn't make sense.
And unfortunately for those trying to strip of us our constitutional rights, common sense is required.






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Old 10-04-2017, 04:26 AM   #116
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People act like slide fires and high capacity magazines were just invented yesterday. One guy goes nuts and that makes everyone that owns a slide fire or 100 round drum a maniac....I've personally seen a slide fire and a 100 round drum take out an entire group of feral hogs. So yes they can in fact be used for hunting,sane people do have them and use them like they're supposed to be used. I don't care what some nut job did with these things. That has nothing to do with anything anyone else owns.

If you think this guy that shot all those folks couldn't or wouldn't have found another way if the slide fire,high capacity magazines or the terrifying "assault weapons" weren't available you're wrong. If you think the inanimate objects or ammo are the problem.....well....go take your medication and hug yourself for a little while. That type of mentality is just insane.

If someone runs a speed boat straight into a crowd of people having fun on a pontoon boat and kills every one of them...women,children,old folks and one handicapped person....who is to blame?

A. The boat because it's capable of a high rate of speed.
B. The deranged speed demon driving the boat.
C.Chase This!.....Because he has a boat.
Personally I think the answer is A and C because I believe boats and boat owners are dangerous.

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Old 10-04-2017, 05:11 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by LFD2037 View Post
Nothing.

If it really happened how we've been told this far, he'd of found 10 other ways to kill people. It's not the device of the user that's the problem, it's the user of the device.
Yes sir
80+ by a truck in france
Several hundred by pilots intentionally crashing planes
Crazy people do crazy things to kill
Hell, this guy may have used this specific route to kill because he hoped it would lead to gun control. What better argument for gun control could there be than a mass shooting.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:19 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
Right. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Heard it a million times, and it's true. But he would have killed a whole lot less with a bolt action .270
Turn yours in then. Then post pictures for us to see of you handing over all your weapons not bolt action to the Sherriff. I wont agree with your position but I will respect you for living by your words.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:20 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
Right. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Heard it a million times, and it's true. But he would have killed a whole lot less with a bolt action .270
What if the next 5 attacks are guys using boats and driving through crowds of swimmers?

Did we enable them by letting boats stay legal?


Answer this question since no one answered it yesterday.

Pretend 100% of all assault rifles are gone today. You know, the big bad black ones. We are all safe now living in this new world filled with love. Then maybe a month or year later some crazy uses 4 9mm hand guns and a shotgun to kill 20 people at a basketball game.

What happens next?

And please at least tell me you know someone, at some time, would indeed use other guns to kill people.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:22 AM   #120
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Turn yours in then. Then post pictures for us to see of you handing over all your weapons not bolt action to the Sherriff. I wont agree with your position but I will respect you for living by your words.
As you probably guessed, I don't own any. Never saw a need. Never had a want. I prefer other toys like bows, boats, fishing reels, etc. I own plenty of bolt action rifles, shot guns and a few pistols. So I guess I am living by my words?
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:28 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
But he didn't. And post 9-11, they took drastic new security measures to prevent that. What new measures do you approve here?

Ps. Nice to have a civilized debate. Nothing personal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M16 View Post
Unfortunately there are risks living in a free society. I don't support any new measures to legislate inanimate objects.

Ps. agreed.
I agree. No new measures. It would just be more government BS that wouldn't stop the next guy.

IMO we need to think about going back towards the old days with less restrictions and "measures". At least look at how many billions or trillions we're using trying to put up road blocks that are easy to go around and see if there's a better way to spend the money. Can't give suggestions because we never know what sets these people off. But if it's because of an unfair system of some kind, fix the system. If it's mental health, focus on that.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:30 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
As you probably guessed, I don't own any. Never saw a need. Never had a want. I prefer other toys like bows, boats, fishing reels, etc. I own plenty of bolt action rifles, shot guns and a few pistols. So I guess I am living by my words?
If you don't own any then yes, you couldn't be called a hypocrite.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:16 AM   #123
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There isn't one law that could have stopped this guy from killing a lot of people. With a crowd that big and dense, a Uhaul truck could have been just as devastating.

The fundamental flaw with the gun control advocate's argument, is that they refuse to acknowledge that evil people exist. They think everyone is a rational person and acts as such. Which is why they think laws will work. The people that do these type of things care nothing for human life, and are committing the most heinous crime, and act against human decency/morality that you can. Why would they care about laws regarding obtaining and possessing firearms?

People have been doing horrible, horrible &%^$ since the beginning of man kind. It's just a sad fact of being human. These type of tragedies are going to happen from time to time and no laws, regulations or rules can stop them.

Diving into statistics, handguns are used overwhelmingly more often in shootings and mass shootings. That alone proves there is a political agenda here.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:34 AM   #124
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As for what may have set Paddock off, retired FBI profiler Jim Clemente speculated that there was "some sort of major trigger in his life ó a great loss, a breakup, or maybe he just found out he has a terminal disease."
Clemente said a "psychological autopsy" may be necessary to try to establish the motive. If the suicide didn't destroy Paddock's brain, experts may even find a neurological disorder or malformation, he said.
He said there could be a genetic component to the slaughter: Paddock's father was a bank robber who was on the FBI's most-wanted list in the 1960s and was diagnosed a psychopath. The genetics load the gun, personality and psychology aim it, and experiences pull the trigger, typically," Clemente said.


While we are discussing taking the rights away from gun owners, I think you need to assess taking the rights away from psychopaths. Maybe even the children of psychopaths. Once you go down the rabbit hole of stripping rights away from Americans, where exactly does it end?
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:42 AM   #125
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Also, why was there no talks of gun control when a Sudanese immigrant shot up a church for racial reasons, and was only stopped from killing many more people by a good guy with a gun? hmmmmmmm..........
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:48 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
As you probably guessed, I don't own any. Never saw a need. Never had a want. I prefer other toys like bows, boats, fishing reels, etc. I own plenty of bolt action rifles, shot guns and a few pistols. So I guess I am living by my words?
Are any of your pistols or shotguns semi automatic? If yes, then no you are not.

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Old 10-04-2017, 09:49 AM   #127
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In an average month, 84 people are murdered in Chicago.
Solution: We should outlaw low-riding cars with hydraulics.

Every year in America, over 40,000 people commit suicide.
Solution: We should ban tall buildings, Unisom and rope.

This makes as much sense as banning a single firearm. These statistics are real and the liberals and anti-gun crowd don't give a crap about them. Why? It's not politically expedient. In fact, those stats are a detriment. Gun control isn't about controlling guns. It's about controlling people.

The only reason this shooting and gun control is a topic of discussion is political. It is standing on the souls of the dead for political gain and it is abhorrent.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:52 AM   #128
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Are any of your pistols or shotguns semi automatic? If yes, then no you are not.

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I've made my personal stance clear. Bolt action rifles, shotguns and pistols.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:56 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
I've made my personal stance clear. Bolt action rifles, shotguns and pistols.
Your personal stance has absolutely no right to interfere with my rights, like it or not.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:57 AM   #130
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Your personal stance has absolutely no right to interfere with my rights, like it or not.
Is it interfering?
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:02 AM   #131
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I've made my personal stance clear. Bolt action rifles, shotguns and pistols.
So youre perfectly ok with a Glock with a 100 rd drum mag? Just as long as it isnt a rifle? Where is your line drawn? Just trying to wrap my head around the logic.

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Old 10-04-2017, 10:04 AM   #132
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So youre perfectly ok with a Glock with a 100 rd drum mag? Just as long as it isnt a rifle? Where is your line drawn? Just trying to wrap my head around the logic.

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Old 10-04-2017, 10:06 AM   #133
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So youre perfectly ok with a Glock with a 100 rd drum mag? Just as long as it isnt a rifle? Where is your line drawn? Just trying to wrap my head around the logic.

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Nope. Against high capacity mags, too.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:09 AM   #134
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I've made my personal stance clear. Bolt action rifles, shotguns and pistols.
You give up one what makes you think that the government won't come after others? What you fail to realize this isn't about protecting lives its about government taking away your right to defend yourself against them. If they truly thought gun control was about protecting lives they would be advocating doing something in Chicago. But they play on the emotions of sheep like yourself in times of tragedy.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:10 AM   #135
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Nope. Against high capacity mags, too.
Hillary? Is that you?
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:12 AM   #136
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Hillary? Is that you?
No, sir. But a sign you are losing is when you resort to childish name calling.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:13 AM   #137
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Little bit off topic but related (you know, our rights and all). Surely all are OK with the NFL kneeling? After all, it's their god given right.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:15 AM   #138
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No, sir. But a sign you are losing is when you resort to childish name calling.


I called you no names....
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:15 AM   #139
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Little bit off topic but related (you know, our rights and all). Surely all are OK with the NFL kneeling? After all, it's their god given right.
It is their right but it is also the right of the consumers and sponsors etc to boycott or fire them. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequence.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:16 AM   #140
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Chase this, i think your thoughts are well and you mean well, but give them an inch they will take a mile. The 2a wasnt created for hunting and recreation. Our fore fathers knew what they were writing when the wrote it. People tend to forget what they had to go through and the lives lost to try to get that rights we have today.

People will be crazy, that will never change. Taking guns away will do nothing, but force them to use other means. Look at other countries for proof.

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Old 10-04-2017, 10:19 AM   #141
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No, sir. But a sign you are losing is when you resort to childish name calling.
Lol! I'm not losing anything. Especially my guns, just because YOU don't THINK I should have certain ones. Although, Hillary was a very bad thing to call someone, and for that I apologize, but technically, I just asked if you were Hillary, I didn't call you her.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:19 AM   #142
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Little bit off topic but related (you know, our rights and all). Surely all are OK with the NFL kneeling? After all, it's their god given right.

I'm okay with them expressing their First Amendment Right. No one said they don't have the Right. It is also freedom and free will I"m expressing when I choose to watch 'Married With Children' reruns instead. Kneel away.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:23 AM   #143
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I've made my personal stance clear. Bolt action rifles, shotguns and pistols.
And you can catch fish from a John boat, or the bank. Why do you need such a large, gas guzzling, (awesome) pollution machine?

It is easy when you are taking rights away from Americans, as long as it doesn't effect you. Same way I wouldn't care if the government outlawed boats over 20 feet, or over 250 HP or enforced a MPG limit.

You OK with the snapper season? I am.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:27 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
And you can catch fish from a John boat, or the bank. Why do you need such a large, gas guzzling, (awesome) pollution machine?

It is easy when you are taking rights away from Americans, as long as it doesn't effect you. Same way I wouldn't care if the government outlawed boats over 20 feet, or over 250 HP or enforced a MPG limit.

You OK with the snapper season? I am.
See. This is a good debate!

You're absolutely right. I don't need that boat, I can use a John boat. But every hunter here can use a bolt action and still be fine.

I think the best argument has been, evil will find a way. I just think anything we can do to make it harder is a good thing.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:32 AM   #145
Livin'2hunt
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I'm not seeing anything about hunting in that text. What I do see is wording about Militia and security of a free State. The matter of high-capacity magazines is soundly covered in the last four words.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:39 AM   #146
batmaninja
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But every hunter here can use a bolt action and still be fine.
You think the founding fathers were worried about bringing down whitetails when they wrote the 2a?

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I just think anything we can do to make it harder is a good thing.
I agree with your statement, just not the implementation. Sometimes a good guy with a gun is a pretty strong motivator. How else you going to stop these criminals "protesting"?
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:40 AM   #147
texasnavy05
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given the intent of the the second ammendment, shouldn't we (pro 2a ppl) be fighting for the right to bear any arms that our military has?

intended for a well trained militia to be able to keep a tyrannical govt in check. in present day, all the ar15s wouldn't do a d@mned thing against a drone strike etc. so we really dont have the ability to check a tyrannical govt currently.

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Old 10-04-2017, 10:42 AM   #148
Chase This!
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Oh I know what they meant, and it had nothing to do with hunting. Just using the boat versus rifle analogy and doing what we like to do.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:48 AM   #149
AZST_bowhunter
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Great point
I saw an article a year or two ago that listed about 5O events if i remember right.
All the mass murders were on these drugs.
Came out last night that he was on anti-depressants
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:50 AM   #150
Ironman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasnavy05 View Post
given the original intent of the the second ammendment, shouldn't we (pro 2a ppl) be fighting for the right to bear any arms that our military has?

originally intended for a well trained militia to be able to keep a tyrannical govt in check. in present day, all the ar15s wouldn't do a d@mned thing against a drone strike etc. so we really dont have the ability to check a tyrannical govt currently.

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I agree. I would love to have an F-16, an Apache and an M1A2 Abrams...........if I could afford it.

I do believe, however, that our military brothers would honor their oath, and take whatever is necessary to protect the citizens of this country if SHTF.
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