Instinctive Shooting

[Buff]

This is not to create argument.
It is to hopefully help folks to better understand "instinctive shooting".

Preface:

You're an instinctive shooter. You don't see the arrow.
All you see is your sight picture/window, and the spot you are focusing on to hit.

You make a perfect dead center shot on your spot at 10 yards, then you back up to 30 yards, and again make a perfect dead center shot on the same spot.

Question:

What did you do different on the 30 yard shot to gain the trajectory needed to hit the spot the same as you did from 10 yards?

Rick

I would call my self a subconscious archer.
I have no doubt that I am seeing the arrow, how could I not it is right under my eye.
I draw my bow and considerate on the spot I want to hit.
Whether it is 5 yards or 50 it is the same process.
My bow arm is kinda floating around and it will stop and I realease the arrow with no conscious thought about what is going on or when any of it is happening.


With that said I believe after shooting thousands of arrows and watching them fly my subconscious as learned to know where my bow hand needs to be by understanding the arch or flight of the arrow

[Phillip Fields]

I'll throw a little of my thinking on the matter in here. Just a little.

I think we all do pretty much the same thing, and we all "see" the same things. The difference is only in how consciously, (or not) we perceive those things we are seeing.

I was a very good ball player. Football, Basketball, and Baseball. I could throw catch & hit with the best of them, but I don't totally relate to the ball throwing analogy. That's just not entirely how it works for me. I had to learn how to throw catch & hit.

A more simple comparison is to that of learning to drive.
At first when learning to drive, you are consciously adjusting/correcting the vehicle to keep it going the way you want it to. There's nothing subconscious about it for quite a while, but after a while you start making those adjustments automatically without thinking about them, therefore they have become an instinctive action, yet they are still an action/adjustment all the same.

You could say the same things about learning to walk, and then run.

So, ((("in my opinion"))) - In order to learn instinctive shooting to any degree of accuracy, you must first learn to shoot using a more mechanical methodical aiming system, and repeat that learned/honed system so much, that it eventually becomes an instinctive action/adjustment to what you are looking at to shoot.

Of course, it goes without saying, that some pick it up quicker than others. That's just a fact of life.

Rick

Rick, with all due respect I disagree with your point about you must first learn to shoot using a more mechanical methodical aiming system. When I first started shooting a bow back in the late '50s I concentrated on the spot I wanted to hit without consciously seeing the arrow. I have always shot this way (except about 10 years in the late '80s - early '90s when I shot a compound).

I pretty much agree with Buff

[RickBarbee]

Phillip - by mechanical methodical I meant - you were consciously making adjustments to hit where you wanted to, and through repetition of that it stuck as an automatic reflex.

You had to think about it to some level, or you would never have corrected the mistakes you were making.

Rick

[Thunderwolf13]

Everything being said is pretty much it for me...I am what everyone would consider an instinctive shooter I do not know the distance do not know where my arrow is just focus on spot I want to hit and my form...but I do know my brain is making all the calculations on it's own which is why I only practice with one bow because if I practice with another bow that shoots differently my brain will re calculate for the new bow..so if I'm gonna shoot different bows at a tournament than my go to bow luckily it only takes me a few shots to let my brain get adjusted to the new bow and I'm good to go...that being said I always encourage new shooters to start gapping cuz I think they see more consistent results faster

[M.E.B.]

I raise my bow and line everything up.

I start drawing and I can see the arrow as a blur.

I don’t concentrate on the arrow but I definitely know where it is left and right and to a lesser extent up and down.

If I try to use the arrow to aim on purpose the wheels fall off.

When it feels good I release.

[RickBarbee]

I raise my bow and line everything up.

I start drawing and I can see the arrow as a blur.

I don’t concentrate on the arrow but I definitely know where it is left and right and to a lesser extent up and down.

If I try to use the arrow to aim on purpose the wheels fall off.

When it feels good I release.

You just described "split vision shooting", or as I like to call it "Gapstinctive".

Great method. Howard Hill liked it.

Rick

[M.E.B.]

Howard used it much more effectively. I promise.

As soon as I get in better shape physically so that I can shoot enough to give it an honest try I’d like to try a fixed crawl at 20 yds.

I think it will help line out my TP.

[Geezy Rider]

I've read that there is no true instinctive shooting but just an unconscious gap shooting. A true instinctive shooter would be able to hit a lighted dot in the dark without being able to see the arrow or distance.
I have no idea if that would be true or not.

[RickBarbee]

I think "anyone" who is "really good" at "anything", including "instinctive shooting" knows exactly what they did/do to make a change/adjustment, and they know how they got to where they are in their proficiency of it.

I fully understand, that it is often hard to put into word what is in your mind. I struggle with that one often, but if you think about it enough you will eventually come up with a way to get your word out in an "understandable fashion".

The whole point to this topic is to try to get those who are "really good" at it to:

(1) Think about it.

(2) Put it into the best explanation they can.

(3) Share that explanation in a way, that might help shed some light on it for those trying to learn and/or get better at it.

Rick

[CRM_95]

Well I'm not good at it lol, but I think everybody aims somehow. Gap shooters use the tip of their arrow but we all do something. I never pay attention to my arrow but I know I'm looking at something. I think for me it's more my bow hand/riser.

[huntmaster]

lots pf practice improved my instinct

[RickBarbee]

There are indeed several methods to achieve the goal, that work.

And, "none" of those methods are complicated. You just have to find the method you most closely relate to, and run with it.

Me, I have a very analytical mind, and just can't turn loose of trying to figure out how everything works. Some see such a thing as a curse (and it can be at times), but I am that way with everything I do. I'm old, and actually enjoy it most of the time, so no sense in trying to change it now, especially since it works (for me at least).

Anyway, to that end, I taught myself instinctive shooting by breaking down & studying every aspect of what is happening the instant I decide to take a shot, until the arrow strikes the target, and "everything" in between.

I worked with my analogies until they melded into (self imposed levels) of accuracy, then I practiced my butt off using them until they became somewhat of just a natural reflex.

While I chose to shoot with a hard aiming system most of the time, I can still shoot moving objects in the pitch dark. I don't hit them all the time, but when I miss it's not by much. I can't see my bow, cant see the arrow, but I can see what I am shooting at & hit it. If that's not at least very close to "instinctive shooting" I don't know what is.

When these type discussions come up, if folks would try to:

(1) Contribute with positive input,

(2) Present congenial acknowledgement, that there are several ways to do this,

(3) Not simply argue their own/one point/opinion of it against all others,

then there would wind up being a lot of great information for those with the "desire" to draw from.

In other words - "State your case, and present examples there of "without" pointing out, or even alluding to the cases present by others. Let your case stand alone on it own merit."

Trust me when I say, "If your method/methods work, there will never be the need to discredit those of someone else in order to prove it."

Rick

[DRT]

Rick I can't explain how I could throw a ball to a glove. I can't tell you how I hit a short stop running to the bag when I'm still running sideways after making a catch.
What I can tell you is every time I try to figure out hand position, arrow position or what not it screws me up bad. Sometimes for days.
And if just point and shoot limits me to 15 to 20 yards for the rest of my life I can live with that.

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[Black Ice]

I recently picked up shooting sporting clays and the first round I ever shot I shot 78 out of 100 in a tournament. After sitting around and asking how I could become a better shooter I found out I am left eye dominate but shoot right handed. So after getting all this new found knowledge and hearing that I needed to shoot with both eyes open instead of closing my left(dominate eye) like I always have I shot 1 for 25 Saturday on the same station. I think I’ll just go back to shooting like I always have. Once I started paying attention I found that I don’t close my eye until around the time I pull the trigger.


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[RickBarbee]

Once I started paying attention I found that I don’t close my eye until around the time I pull the trigger.


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I too am left eye dominant, yet hopelessly right handed, so I shoot right handed.

I shoot my bow exactly as you described.

Rick