Elk Arrow Setup: How Slow is TOO Slow?

[Chad C]

I only took a 500 grain arrow on my moose hunt.. I truly feel that from 430-500 grains is the sweet spot for any North American animal... In my opinion if you hit a bone that a 430 grain arrow wont go through then a 500 grain arrow wont go through it either. I think the broadhead choice, spine and tune is way more important. If your shooting a big mechanical with a flat blade angle that is going to penetrate less than a coc iron will.. If your arrow isnt flying true and is hitting the target at an angle that is going to affect penetration. Having a arrow with a spine that is too weak will allow more energy to be sucked up when it hits something hard..


Everyone wants a HEAVY arrow and then they quote the Ashby stuff.. What they fail to also put in there is the ashby stuff is truly heavy.. Like 650 grains.. And also must be accompanied by a single bevel broadhead.

Other than my moose hunt when I was shooting like 260 fps i set every bow up the same.. I set it up with an arrow that shoots 275-290 fps.. The arrow changes with each bow but I shoot for that number. Last year for elk,deer and antelope that arrow was a 300 spine pierce with a 100 grain head that ended up at 435 grains.. It blew through everything..

STOP OVERTHINGKING IT..

Good stuff!


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[tradtiger]

Cfortner touched on the issue, but what shot ranges would be expected on an elk?

[JTeLarkin08]

my advice looking at the arrow you have built up is ditch the extra weighted outsert, and shoot 100 grain tips It should spine out perfect for your bow..

gt pierce 300
29"
gt insert system with gt collar and 100 grain tip

that should put you in the ball park of 440-460.. That pierce arrow is one of the best Ive ever shot..

[TX_Kevin]

I've listened to a few podcasts recommending them with heavier foc setups with fixed coc heads, I suppose to combat potential steering issues with the broadhead. I feel like I'm almost between spines, with 300 being borderline weak with the 125+insert+weight, so I figured a few extra gr. at the back couldn't hurt (although probably won't make an appreciable difference.)

I am going to watch and follow this. I have a 29" 70 lb HTR as well, so if I am smart, I am going to watch, listen, and learn.
I have an opinion here from having chunked a few bazillion arrows from that setup, but that don't mean I am right.

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[Bowhuntin_Toona]

That was rough.

I'm chasing elk this year as well, and decided I needed some heavier arrows. My current whitetail arrow is 386 grains. I have T-Rex arms as my buddy put it. Draw length and arrows are 27".

Went with Carbon Express Pile Driver 250's. Final weight is 420 grains with a 100gr broadhead. I'm shooting 66 pounds and my pin gap was maxed out on my Spot Hogg. I have since moved the sight closer to the bow to help with the gap issue. Not sure what speed I'm getting, don't care, doesn't matter. As long as I can make the shot, it's a dead elk.

I used to live in Washington and chased elk every year. My arrows were always 550 to 650 grains (aluminum) and I was shooting 70 - 80 pounds. Had a hunting partner that shot close to the same weight arrows. Hit a bull right in the shoulder. Even with the heavy arrow, zero penetration. Shot placement is key.

[Traildust]

Put an HHA King Pin on it.

Then get ya a PSE Ecite 65# after your hunt. Problem solved.

[enewman]

I only took a 500 grain arrow on my moose hunt.. I truly feel that from 430-500 grains is the sweet spot for any North American animal... In my opinion if you hit a bone that a 430 grain arrow wont go through then a 500 grain arrow wont go through it either. I think the broadhead choice, spine and tune is way more important. If your shooting a big mechanical with a flat blade angle that is going to penetrate less than a coc iron will.. If your arrow isnt flying true and is hitting the target at an angle that is going to affect penetration. Having a arrow with a spine that is too weak will allow more energy to be sucked up when it hits something hard..


Everyone wants a HEAVY arrow and then they quote the Ashby stuff.. What they fail to also put in there is the ashby stuff is truly heavy.. Like 650 grains.. And also must be accompanied by a single bevel broadhead.

Other than my moose hunt when I was shooting like 260 fps i set every bow up the same.. I set it up with an arrow that shoots 275-290 fps.. The arrow changes with each bow but I shoot for that number. Last year for elk,deer and antelope that arrow was a 300 spine pierce with a 100 grain head that ended up at 435 grains.. It blew through everything..

STOP OVERTHINGKING IT..

Hm. I studied or read how over we look at it dr ashby. I follow several things in his findings. I use and teach the 12 penetration factors like their instructions. But up till this year I’ve never shot over a 550 gr arrow. I see a 500 to 550 is for me a good fit. But I will say I’ve had hogs stop 500 gr arrows. That point it’s normally the head I’m using and the shot placement.

What I think is funny s people don’t look at the complete picture. It’s like your set up. The 430 vs 500. Are you going to see a difference. Prolly not. Is there a difference. Yes there is. Build a sand box and shoot both arrows into it. You will see the difference. That is nothing but physics.

Now I can take the 430 and out perform the 500 just by changing broadheads. Example. Put a toxic in the 500 and a stinger on the 430.

When building arrows. Your not just building an arrow your building a penetration system. This penetration system is from tip to nock. If it’s not built correctly or a part of this system fails then the complete system fails.

As far as over thinkers. I’m an over thinker. I use math to build my set ups. But if not for over thinkers we would still be living in caves. With no running water and taking ****s outside.


I will be over the 550 Mark this year. I’m testing the Grizzly stik TDT. What I can say is this arrow and how it’s built and the reactions and recovery are crazy. Down side is it’s heavy. I built one test arrow the other day using the 600 gr Bishop broadhead. So the arrow with lighted nock was 995 gr. Yes **** heavy. I had 36% foc and i tested to 25 yards with broadhead bareshaft. Did I say it was heavy haha. It was around 190fps. Not bad for a 26.5 Draw

[chris1911]

is your bow a 60-70 lb bow? if so you may want to take some time and get it back to factory specs and then see what it shoots... you said it maxes at 65?

i shoot a fast setup and my react is off at 60 as well....shoots like its 55.

[ChickenWilly]

Not a whole lot of help but I have a react 5 pin on my htr pulling just over 60lbs and shooting a 500gr arrow setup. Mine is spot on out to 60 but I'm not far from maxing it out .A year ago I went from shooting a 400 gr set up to the 500gr set up I'm shooting now and just shooting the 3d target in my backyard was a noticeable difference in penetration.
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[HDWRENCH]

Funny I just did this . Same shop same guy

1. We tested draw weight
2. Tested speed on my old arrow 300 fps
3. Tested speed on 450 that he had there
4. Decided to use a 100 tip over the 125
5. Retest that arrow 278
6. Decided that I could live with that
7. Bought arrows , browsed around store
8. They made correcting to rest based on shaft size change ( free of charge )
9. they tuned/ checked the bow Lights out accurate and less noise
10. Paid the man and smiled Easy as it could be.

I own a business , I believe they are top notch , and Fishndude is outstanding

From start to completion on the set up he asked questions , offered suggestions , options .

In CO the shots are not under 40 for the most part . So arrow speed is a factor , Shot placement is key , Broad head in use KEY . I always believe its going to be a find the happy spot type deal

. Sure I could go 550 weight wise but longer shots are going to be an issue , pins etc. I shoot a multi pin I like that for me .

I am drawing 65 which is butter to draw. I am 28 on the draw cannot make my arms longer HA HA

The new set up is far better than the old one and I have 100% faith in my ability and the rig . Good luck

[Jamesl]

Your original arrow would be fine. I went from a 340 spine to a 300 spine Black Eagle Spartan with a 30 grain brass insert for addition foc. Plenty of speed for longer distance shots which may present themselves to you and plenty of penetration with a good broadhead.

[Texans42]

I only took a 500 grain arrow on my moose hunt.. I truly feel that from 430-500 grains is the sweet spot for any North American animal... In my opinion if you hit a bone that a 430 grain arrow wont go through then a 500 grain arrow wont go through it either. I think the broadhead choice, spine and tune is way more important. If your shooting a big mechanical with a flat blade angle that is going to penetrate less than a coc iron will.. If your arrow isnt flying true and is hitting the target at an angle that is going to affect penetration. Having a arrow with a spine that is too weak will allow more energy to be sucked up when it hits something hard..


Everyone wants a HEAVY arrow and then they quote the Ashby stuff.. What they fail to also put in there is the ashby stuff is truly heavy.. Like 650 grains.. And also must be accompanied by a single bevel broadhead.

Other than my moose hunt when I was shooting like 260 fps i set every bow up the same.. I set it up with an arrow that shoots 275-290 fps.. The arrow changes with each bow but I shoot for that number. Last year for elk,deer and antelope that arrow was a 300 spine pierce with a 100 grain head that ended up at 435 grains.. It blew through everything..

STOP OVERTHINGKING IT..

[JTeLarkin08]

Hm. I studied or read how over we look at it dr ashby. I follow several things in his findings. I use and teach the 12 penetration factors like their instructions. But up till this year I’ve never shot over a 550 gr arrow. I see a 500 to 550 is for me a good fit. But I will say I’ve had hogs stop 500 gr arrows. That point it’s normally the head I’m using and the shot placement.



What I think is funny s people don’t look at the complete picture. It’s like your set up. The 430 vs 500. Are you going to see a difference. Prolly not. Is there a difference. Yes there is. Build a sand box and shoot both arrows into it. You will see the difference. That is nothing but physics.



Now I can take the 430 and out perform the 500 just by changing broadheads. Example. Put a toxic in the 500 and a stinger on the 430.



When building arrows. Your not just building an arrow your building a penetration system. This penetration system is from tip to nock. If it’s not built correctly or a part of this system fails then the complete system fails.



As far as over thinkers. I’m an over thinker. I use math to build my set ups. But if not for over thinkers we would still be living in caves. With no running water and taking ****s outside.





I will be over the 550 Mark this year. I’m testing the Grizzly stik TDT. What I can say is this arrow and how it’s built and the reactions and recovery are crazy. Down side is it’s heavy. I built one test arrow the other day using the 600 gr Bishop broadhead. So the arrow with lighted nock was 995 gr. Yes **** heavy. I had 36% foc and i tested to 25 yards with broadhead bareshaft. Did I say it was heavy haha. It was around 190fps. Not bad for a 26.5 Draw

I agree there is a difference technically between a 430 and 500 grain arrow. But if that difference isn’t noticeable or measurable in a real hunting situation then is there a real life difference?

Ya penetration is great. But if you shoot under or over what your trying to kill it’s not gonna do you much good. That’s why I go by the 280fps rule. If you do that you get used to your pin gaps. It’s not too fast and not too slow. Fixed heads still tune really well at 280 FPS and it seems to be a perfect balance


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[enewman]

I agree there is a difference technically between a 430 and 500 grain arrow. But if that difference isn’t noticeable or measurable in a real hunting situation then is there a real life difference?

Ya penetration is great. But if you shoot under or over what your trying to kill it’s not gonna do you much good. That’s why I go by the 280fps rule. If you do that you get used to your pin gaps. It’s not too fast and not too slow. Fixed heads still tune really well at 280 FPS and it seems to be a perfect balance


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Me being a short draw I normally limit my speed to 250. But this year if I decide to hunt with the tdt I’m going to be around 230 I believe. So I’ll have to make sure to range the animal. Now at my place no big deal. My shots are 15 to 20 yards

As far as measurable. Yes it would be. But I’m not doing it. In the penetration study. There wher 118 points of data taken for each shot. You would need to take at least 20 animals to get an average. So that is 2360 points of data. Haha. Not me

[Michael]

I only took a 500 grain arrow on my moose hunt.. I truly feel that from 430-500 grains is the sweet spot for any North American animal... In my opinion if you hit a bone that a 430 grain arrow wont go through then a 500 grain arrow wont go through it either. I think the broadhead choice, spine and tune is way more important. If your shooting a big mechanical with a flat blade angle that is going to penetrate less than a coc iron will.. If your arrow isnt flying true and is hitting the target at an angle that is going to affect penetration. Having a arrow with a spine that is too weak will allow more energy to be sucked up when it hits something hard..


Everyone wants a HEAVY arrow and then they quote the Ashby stuff.. What they fail to also put in there is the ashby stuff is truly heavy.. Like 650 grains.. And also must be accompanied by a single bevel broadhead.

Other than my moose hunt when I was shooting like 260 fps i set every bow up the same.. I set it up with an arrow that shoots 275-290 fps.. The arrow changes with each bow but I shoot for that number. Last year for elk,deer and antelope that arrow was a 300 spine pierce with a 100 grain head that ended up at 435 grains.. It blew through everything..

STOP OVERTHINGKING IT..

Good feedback...but I suppose it took some testing to get there?

is your bow a 60-70 lb bow? if so you may want to take some time and get it back to factory specs and then see what it shoots... you said it maxes at 65?

i shoot a fast setup and my react is off at 60 as well....shoots like its 55.

70# limbs. Getting bow in spec is the next step in the process.

Funny I just did this . Same shop same guy

1. We tested draw weight
2. Tested speed on my old arrow 300 fps
3. Tested speed on 450 that he had there
4. Decided to use a 100 tip over the 125
5. Retest that arrow 278
6. Decided that I could live with that
7. Bought arrows , browsed around store
8. They made correcting to rest based on shaft size change ( free of charge )
9. they tuned/ checked the bow Lights out accurate and less noise
10. Paid the man and smiled Easy as it could be.

I own a business , I believe they are top notch , and Fishndude is outstanding

From start to completion on the set up he asked questions , offered suggestions , options .

In CO the shots are not under 40 for the most part . So arrow speed is a factor , Shot placement is key , Broad head in use KEY . I always believe its going to be a find the happy spot type deal

. Sure I could go 550 weight wise but longer shots are going to be an issue , pins etc. I shoot a multi pin I like that for me .

I am drawing 65 which is butter to draw. I am 28 on the draw cannot make my arms longer HA HA

The new set up is far better than the old one and I have 100% faith in my ability and the rig . Good luck

I agree there is a difference technically between a 430 and 500 grain arrow. But if that difference isn’t noticeable or measurable in a real hunting situation then is there a real life difference?

Ya penetration is great. But if you shoot under or over what your trying to kill it’s not gonna do you much good. That’s why I go by the 280fps rule. If you do that you get used to your pin gaps. It’s not too fast and not too slow. Fixed heads still tune really well at 280 FPS and it seems to be a perfect balance


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I had some parameters in mind for fps range and min. arrow weight and just need a few tweaks to get within those ranges.

I removed the insert weight and will play around with different head weights and even possibly a lighter insert weight to see what tunes best.