culling older bucks

[dsliland]

I have little knowledge of deer genetics and herd management, and over the years of reading different management practices, it seems that a common tactic is to shoot older bucks that are in decline. Sometimes the buck being killed used to be a stud. So my questions and after thought questions are:
1. why kill a buck that has awesome genetics because he is going into decline? wouldn't you want him to keep breeding until he dies?
2. if a buck was 14 points last year and now he is a 12 point from age decline, would you still keep him in the herd over a nice 10 point? when does the genetics from the 14 point stop producing 14 point sperm?

[BSOB]

Very good question. I think you are correct, but alot of us hunt for horn size so that is why people shoot a declining buck.

[perfectstorm]

When we have enough 14 and 12 points running around on the place to warrant killing them, I'll let you know how we deal with it then. Can't wait to have "problem" like this. Currently our super stud bucks have a do not shoot policy and will have a natural death. But we need them badly in our program. Our place is not to the point where there are worth more dead yet.

But I think that is how you decided whether or not to take them. They may still be producing star sperm, but as long as you have other rising stars of equal or better size, you may want to take him for pride value or sell his hunt to a client before his on hoof value decreases with his antler size.

However to hear some of these bigger ranches with years invested into grooming their whitetail population talk- you will have to wait a while--7 or 8+ years old-- to see them go "downhill".

[Mex. Bowhunter]

I have little knowledge of deer genetics and herd management, and over the years of reading different management practices, it seems that a common tactic is to shoot older bucks that are in decline. Sometimes the buck being killed used to be a stud. So my questions and after thought questions are:
1. why kill a buck that has awesome genetics because he is going into decline? wouldn't you want him to keep breeding until he dies?
2. if a buck was 14 points last year and now he is a 12 point from age decline, would you still keep him in the herd over a nice 10 point? when does the genetics from the 14 point stop producing 14 point sperm?

If he was a proven Trophy deer and he just went down due to age of Injury than yes he would die of Old Age. A proven deer here and there will never hurt your numbers

[jshouse]

a 7yo 14pt has the same sperm it had when it was a 1yo forkhorn and the same it will have as a 9yo whatever he is...the sperm wont change.

[GarGuy]

My problem is, I start bowhunting that sucker at 5.5 and it takes me three years to kill him!

[jshouse]

My problem is, I start bowhunting that sucker at 5.5 and it takes me three years to kill him!

yes

[30-30]

a 7yo 14pt has the same sperm it had when it was a 1yo forkhorn and the same it will have as a 9yo whatever he is...the sperm wont change.

Does breeding success decline at all as a buck gets older? Do they breed with as many does each year as a younger buck?

[KILLERMILLER]

If he was a proven Trophy deer and he just went down due to age of Injury than yes he would die of Old Age. A proven deer here and there will never hurt your numbers

Amen........... Well said

[perfectstorm]

http://www.qdma.com/articles/will-dominant-bucks-dominate-the-breeding

From the article, research based off the King Ranch:

.....Fortunately, Randy’s and Anna Bess’s research also revealed that even though young bucks do some of the breeding, mature bucks do most of it in populations with good age structure. Their research showed bucks 3½ years of age and older sired 70 and 85 percent of fawns, respectively, in populations with reasonable age structure and sex ratios. Thus, all yearlings and 2½-year-olds collectively only sired 15 to 30 percent of the fawns. This is much better than when yearlings and 2½-year-olds comprise 80 to 90 percent of the buck population, such as under many traditional deer management programs, and would thus sire nearly all fawns. The physical and nutritional stress of actively participating in the rut no doubt has an impact on the health and future development of these immature bucks. Also, does appear to select mates based at least partially on age – older does tend to select older mates. If older bucks are not available, older does may spend more time unsuccessfully wandering and searching for them. They will breed with younger bucks but it is typically later in the fall.

[Abcdj]

The variables seem endless.

[TexasTK]

a 7yo 14pt has the same sperm it had when it was a 1yo forkhorn and the same it will have as a 9yo whatever he is...the sperm wont change.

I would disagree with this. I am not a biologist but I believe the fertility rate of the bucks sperm will decrease with age. Also as a buck gets older he will become less dominant and will breed less. He gets pushed around by younger deer and they do not actively rut. I have seen this time and time again.
They are more concerned about survival than breeding. I don't believe bucks in the 8 1/2 yr old category and up contribute much to the gene pool in a properly managed herd.

[Mex. Bowhunter]

I would disagree with this. I am not a biologist but I believe the fertility rate of the bucks sperm will decrease with age. Also as a buck gets older he will become less dominant and will breed less. He gets pushed around by younger deer and they do not actively rut. I have seen this time and time again.
They are more concerned about survival than breeding. I don't believe bucks in the 8 1/2 yr old category and up contribute much to the gene pool in a properly managed herd.

We are seeing Deer 8.5 to 10yrs old very active on my ranch and still In the Breeding Pool.

The only difference is they have a very small Range

[PondPopper]

If he had what you want and As long as he is not highly aggressive and killing younger up and comers pass him up.

[BSOB]

I would disagree with this. I am not a biologist but I believe the fertility rate of the bucks sperm will decrease with age. Also as a buck gets older he will become less dominant and will breed less. He gets pushed around by younger deer and they do not actively rut. I have seen this time and time again.
They are more concerned about survival than breeding. I don't believe bucks in the 8 1/2 yr old category and up contribute much to the gene pool in a properly managed herd.

But he is talking about his sperm in terms of it's makeup/DNA/genes....that will never change.

Yes he may not breed as much but his DNA won't change