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Old 07-24-2018, 08:26 PM   #1
Michael
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Default Elk Arrow Setup: How Slow is TOO Slow?

This may be a little long as a think this through "out loud" to myself...

Jeff and the fine folks at CCR recently built me a few heavier arrows to test for my backcountry elk setup in September. I've been shooting them for a couple of weeks (for form purposes). My setup is as follows:

Mathews HTR w/ 70# limbs
29" draw
29" arrows

Arrow build:
Goldtip Pierce 300 cut to 29".
65gr weight added to outsert
4 fletch vanes
125gr tip
Total arrow weight 528gr (with 125gr tip)

Casey had an extra Trophy Ridge React Pro sight (long story) that he gave me over the weekend to test. I knew the setup was slow, but I realized it might be TOO slow when I was unable to set the React sight beyond 20 yards because the pin gap is too wide to accommodate the longest pin (60) without bottoming out on the housing!

Today I ran over to Brush to Bay Outfitters to do some tuning and testing. I did a little bit of paper tuning and then decided to run the arrow through the chrono (probably should have done that first).

My first shot registered 293. I knew that was a misread because there's no way this setup is capable of that. I shot again and registered 238, which I equaled with a couple more shots. I replaced the 125 tip with a 100 grain tip and shot 242, 242 and 243. I ran my old arrow (Beman ICS Hunter with 125 tip - 336gr total weight) through and got 266 fps.

I decided to check draw weight and am getting 65# on the B2B scale. I figured it would be much higher than that. Axle-axle is about 3/8" long, so maybe a little string stretch on the factory set. Timing indicators are right on.

I figure my options are as follows:

1. Put my Spott Hogg back on, change to 100 grain heads to drop arrow weight to 503 gr and live with the wide pin gap at 243ish fps.

2. Add twist to string to increase draw weight, hopefully to 70# and retest each setup.

3. Purchase a new string and replace factory string (which could be used as an emergency backup) and retest.

3. Go back to original setup (436 gr ICS Hunter 340 at 266 fps). I thought about adding weighted insert or heavier head to that setup, but fear a fresh or twisted string that brings me >70# might result in weak spine from 340s.


Not that I'm stuck with running the React sight, but I believe minimum for it to work properly is 250 fps. I feel like that's the minimum of where I need to be, and I originally wanted to be around the 260 range.

Anyway, I think I have a good idea of what I want to do (after discussing with both Jeff and Tim and writing it all out here) but feel free to offer up opinions or advice (if you made it this far! )
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:39 PM   #2
hopedale
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Way more thought in this then I would have done. I'm shooting 100gr field tips and broadheads, and debate in my mind is should I go up to 125 when I can go after an elk.

In my mind there have been plenty of deer taken with long bows. What speed and weight were those old bows flinging by Jim Doegherty and Fred Bear?

I haven't a clue.

I know you're looking for some help with this one, but for me, I'm going to focus on shot placement.

But like you, I'd like to hear from some other folks that get into the science of all this, as well as, those that have been flinging the arrows at elk.
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:40 PM   #3
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I just took mine to on target in Canton and had them run through my bow. My bow is at 76#, 30” draw, 475 grain arrow shooting 276 FPS. Im happy with that but need to test it outside with Broadheads on. It has been so dang windy at my house I cant trust what’s going on.
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:45 PM   #4
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Interesting... I'm in for any info.
Headed to Chama in September and my outfitter's recommendation was >425 gr.
My 28-1/2" Easton FMJs tipped with 100 gr. Kudu points tipped the scale at 432 gr.
I'm pulling 60 lbs. to 28-1/2" draw and haven't chrono'ed the set-up, but had to use almost the widest spread tape (No. 11) on my CBE TEK-Hybrid Pro to get it dialed.
Been out to 70 yards so far with great results.
If everything else is working I'd consider bagging the sight in favor of something that will work with your set-up. You could also set the sight at 5-yard increments.
It's getting to be time where I'd start getting nervous about major set-up changes... September will be here before you know it!
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:52 PM   #5
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I've experimented with Grizzly Stix 650gr set up. I loved the SMACK, but the lack of speed freaked me out a little. I never chrono checked it, but I felt like I could outrun the arrow. I ran into some of the same issues with my sight as you did. I don't think your 238fps is that bad, considering that we were all shooting that speed 25 years ago, but it is just weird to see the difference in flight. I ultimately decided to go back to my original setup, which is about 450ish, as it was proven and trusted. I still tinker with the heavy arrows, but I've yet to hunt with the setup.

I will say for backcountry elk, I don't think that lack of speed is going to make a big difference. The kinetic energy that those heavier setups bring would serve you well when driving it through an elk.

Whichever way you decide to go with your setup, let us know. If you figure it out and have the confidence to hunt with it....well, I probably could too.
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:53 PM   #6
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Default Elk Arrow Setup: How Slow is TOO Slow?

Those original arrows would have blown through an elk at 50 with the right Broadhead.
However, do you anticipate shooting at an elk past 50 yards? If you’re calling, odds are you’ll be in timber and may only be able to see 20 yards.


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Last edited by DapperDan; 07-24-2018 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:56 PM   #7
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I'm not sure how slow is too slow, but moving the sight closer to your eye/riser will narrow the pin gaps.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
This may be a little long as a think this through "out loud" to myself...

Jeff and the fine folks at CCR recently built me a few heavier arrows to test for my backcountry elk setup in September. I've been shooting them for a couple of weeks (for form purposes). My setup is as follows:

Mathews HTR w/ 70# limbs
29" draw
29" arrows

Arrow build:
Goldtip Pierce 300 cut to 29".
65gr weight added to outsert
4 fletch vanes
125gr tip
Total arrow weight 528gr (with 125gr tip)

Casey had an extra Trophy Ridge React Pro sight (long story) that he gave me over the weekend to test. I knew the setup was slow, but I realized it might be TOO slow when I was unable to set the React sight beyond 20 yards because the pin gap is too wide to accommodate the longest pin (60) without bottoming out on the housing!

Today I ran over to Brush to Bay Outfitters to do some tuning and testing. I did a little bit of paper tuning and then decided to run the arrow through the chrono (probably should have done that first).

My first shot registered 293. I knew that was a misread because there's no way this setup is capable of that. I shot again and registered 238, which I equaled with a couple more shots. I replaced the 125 tip with a 100 grain tip and shot 242, 242 and 243. I ran my old arrow (Beman ICS Hunter with 125 tip - 336gr total weight) through and got 266 fps.

I decided to check draw weight and am getting 65# on the B2B scale. I figured it would be much higher than that. Axle-axle is about 3/8" long, so maybe a little string stretch on the factory set. Timing indicators are right on.

I figure my options are as follows:

1. Put my Spott Hogg back on, change to 100 grain heads to drop arrow weight to 503 gr and live with the wide pin gap at 243ish fps.

2. Add twist to string to increase draw weight, hopefully to 70# and retest each setup.

3. Purchase a new string and replace factory string (which could be used as an emergency backup) and retest.

3. Go back to original setup (436 gr ICS Hunter 340 at 266 fps). I thought about adding weighted insert or heavier head to that setup, but fear a fresh or twisted string that brings me >70# might result in weak spine from 340s.


Not that I'm stuck with running the React sight, but I believe minimum for it to work properly is 250 fps. I feel like that's the minimum of where I need to be, and I originally wanted to be around the 260 range.

Anyway, I think I have a good idea of what I want to do (after discussing with both Jeff and Tim and writing it all out here) but feel free to offer up opinions or advice (if you made it this far! )
This post informs me that your shop of choice is not checking things as you Persue your goal to a good elk setup. Your bow should be checked for spec every time you go in there. 3/8 of an inch long is not acceptable when you are choosing arrows for correct spine and hunting performance. You are the only one that can decide what is correct for speed, but your shop is responsible for keeping your bow in spec so that you can
Make that decision.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:02 PM   #9
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Not sure I completely understand if your outserts weigh 65 gr or you added a weight? It sounds like you added a weight. If that's the case I think you loose the 65gr weight keep the 125 BH. Puts you at a 463 total weight. Since your bow is only pulling #65 I would lean towards this lighter set up which is really still on the heavy side anyways. 460 grains at 250-255 dps will give you 65lbs of KE. More than suitable for elk. Then you will also be able to have a reasonable pin gap since you'll likely be taking a shot over 20 yds. I think the problem is too much weight up front resulting in the nose dive effect. Just my two cents. I've played around with mine for quite a while. Good luck!! Btw one my biggest problems with the same arrow set up is it blowing through targets because the heavy KE.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
This post informs me that your shop of choice is not checking things as you Persue your goal to a good elk setup. Your bow should be checked for spec every time you go in there. 3/8 of an inch long is not acceptable when you are choosing arrows for correct spine and hunting performance. You are the only one that can decide what is correct for speed, but your shop is responsible for keeping your bow in spec so that you can
Make that decision.
His “shop of choice” did what he asked on our end and without the bow at our disposal.

Last edited by Fishndude; 07-24-2018 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:07 PM   #11
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Michael, my first elk with a bow was with a recurve shooting a 650 gr. snuffer tipped Gold Tip 100 topping out at 212 fps. The dang arrow didn't even change trajectory as it zipped through the elk's ribcage and stuck in a stick on the ground 15 yards on the other side of the elk. I learned when skinning/processing, it slipped between the ribs going in, but centerpunched on exiting... Elk ran about 15 yards and piled up in a heap... Speed is not what kills. Accurate shooting is what kills. If you can shoot your bow accurately out to your maximum comfortable range whatever that is, don't worry about speed.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishndude View Post

.His “shop of choice” did what he asked
I’m not being a smartass, just telling him what I would do if he came in my shop.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishndude View Post

His “shop of choice” did what he asked on our end and without the bow at our disposal.
Nice quick edit
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:11 PM   #14
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I aways just shoot same arrows at everything
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
Nice quick edit
Hey, i figured you weren’t being a smart ***.

I had him at 254 @ 70 lbs
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
I’m not being a smartass, just telling him what I would do if he came in my shop.
That may be what you meant, but that is NOT what you SAID... What you said is typical of so many of your posts over the years... You indeed are a genuine smart ***. And no one knows more about archery equipment and technology than you. all anyone has to do is just ask, you'll tell 'em...
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishndude View Post
Hey, i figured you weren’t being a smart ***.

I had him at 254 @ 70 lbs
You called me a “smartass” before you edited your post.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltwaterSlick View Post
That may be what you meant, but that is NOT what you SAID... What you said is typical of so many of your posts over the years... You indeed are a genuine smart ***. And no one knows more about archery equipment and technology than you. all anyone has to do is just ask, you'll tell 'em...
Would you check specs on bow to determine the best arrow for his setup? This is all I said.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
You called me a “smartass” before you edited your post.
Yes I know I did. I’m the one who edited it. Based on most recent posts, I decided maybe you weren’t being A smartass.

Also in my defense(not that I need defending), I wasn’t told a React H5 would be his sight of choice or I’d have been more precise.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishndude View Post
Yes I know I did. I’m the one who edited it. Based on most recent posts, I decided maybe you weren’t being A smartass.

Also in my defense(not that I need defending), I wasn’t told a React H5 would be his sight of choice or I’d have been more precise.
The sight has nothing to do with this. The bow is out of spec, and arrow choice can’t be determined until bow is in spec.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:28 PM   #21
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Michael, enjoy your thread. I’m out!
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:31 PM   #22
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Default Elk Arrow Setup: How Slow is TOO Slow?

Dude, that’s plenty! I killed my first elk slinging barely over 265 and it wasn’t a close shot...

100 grain thunderhead. I don’t remember overall weight. I have a 28” draw.

I like option 3.

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Last edited by Chad C; 07-24-2018 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:36 PM   #23
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I have killed elk over 50 yards using an overdraw and very light arrows and I have also killed an elk at 4 yards with a medium weight set up and one using a 565 grain arrow that was not fast. Just get an arrow you are comfortable with, get comfortable and confident with your bow and set up and make sure your BH's are hitting the same as your FP's. Elk have a basic 16'x16' kill zone. Just put it in the right spot and they are down, no matter the speed, fast, medium or slow!
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
This post informs me that your shop of choice is not checking things as you Persue your goal to a good elk setup. Your bow should be checked for spec every time you go in there. 3/8 of an inch long is not acceptable when you are choosing arrows for correct spine and hunting performance. You are the only one that can decide what is correct for speed, but your shop is responsible for keeping your bow in spec so that you can

Make that decision.


For most of my bowhunting life, I haven't lived near a good shop. I moved away from Huffman about the time Sam opened Triple Edge in Dayton, I was fortunate for a couple year period to live in FW near CCR and for the last couple in Hallettsville near B2B.

That said, I've never purchased a bow from a "local" shop. I've been given a bow or two from friends, purchased used from TBH classifieds, or more recently have received them direct from the manufacturer.

With that in mind, I've never been a guy to spend much time hanging out in a local archery shop and never felt comfortable asking a shop to tune or maintain a bow that I didn't purchase from them.

I'm no expert, but I have enough general knowledge to setup a bow and tune the arrows to get it dialed in for whitetail. Honestly, I don't typically tinker with my bow, rest, sight, arrows, release, etc. to require a whole lot of tweaking from year to year. If my arrows fly well, broadheads group well and I consistently kill ****, then other than a visual inspection and string wax, I don't make many changes.

Of course this year things have changed. First, I changed to a thumb release. Then I got invited on an elk hunt. After some research, I decided I wanted to test some heavier arrows with heavier foc. Casey let me borrow and test a different sight. Because of so many changes as I prepare for a completely different type of hunt, I decided a more thorough check of my bow was in order.

Jeff (or anybody else at CCR) has never seen my current bow. Today was the first time I've ever walked into B2B with bow in hand. Neither are anymore responsible for keeping my bow tuned than you are, but both are giving me as much advice as I request to help get me dialed in by September.


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Old 07-24-2018, 09:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Casey had an extra Trophy Ridge React Pro sight (long story) that he gave me over the weekend to test. I knew the setup was slow, but I realized it might be TOO slow when I was unable to set the React sight beyond 20 yards because the pin gap is too wide to accommodate the longest pin (60) without bottoming out on the housing!
I had a similar situation with an older Trophy Ridge sight. The simple fix for me was to raise my peep. Obviously, this changed my anchor slightly but it didn't take long to get used to. I don't know if this is something that you would be willing to do, but it might fix the issue with the sight. Good luck.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
For most of my bowhunting life, I haven't lived near a good shop. I moved away from Huffman about the time Sam opened Triple Edge in Dayton, I was fortunate for a couple year period to live in FW near CCR and for the last couple in Hallettsville near B2B.

That said, I've never purchased a bow from a "local" shop. I've been given a bow or two from friends, purchased used from TBH classifieds, or more recently have received them direct from the manufacturer.

With that in mind, I've never been a guy to spend much time hanging out in a local archery shop and never felt comfortable asking a shop to tune or maintain a bow that I didn't purchase from them.

I'm no expert, but I have enough general knowledge to setup a bow and tune the arrows to get it dialed in for whitetail. Honestly, I don't typically tinker with my bow, rest, sight, arrows, release, etc. to require a whole lot of tweaking from year to year. If my arrows fly well, broadheads group well and I consistently kill ****, then other than a visual inspection and string wax, I don't make many changes.

Of course this year things have changed. First, I changed to a thumb release. Then I got invited on an elk hunt. After some research, I decided I wanted to test some heavier arrows with heavier foc. Casey let me borrow and test a different sight. Because of so many changes as I prepare for a completely different type of hunt, I decided a more thorough check of my bow was in order.

Jeff (or anybody else at CCR) has never seen my current bow. Today was the first time I've ever walked into B2B with bow in hand. Neither are anymore responsible for keeping my bow tuned than you are, but both are giving me as much advice as I request to help get me dialed in by September.


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Bows are designed to perform best at spec. Bow hunters are responsible to maintain equipment for max performance. Bowshops are the guys that keep bows at spec to maintain max performance. Doesn’t matter if bow is purchased there, or elsewhere when determining best arrow for game choice.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:51 PM   #27
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Just to clarify, I asked Jeff (via text) about building heavier arrows with higher foc "to test". I don't ha r a bow scale so I made an assumption of approx draw weight based on my bow having 70# limbs. Jeff built exactly based on the specs I sent him from 300 miles away. I asked him to build only 6 with the idea that it was a fairly drastic change and figuring the result would be a significant decrease in speed.

I'm pretty comfortable with my previous setup, and it's easy enough to go back that route if I think it will work better.

There are also several other intermediary changes to the bow or arrows that I can make that may (or may not) result in better overall performance.

I have a pretty good idea of the process I'll go through to get the best final result, but I figured it might be interesting to get some insight from some of the tuning geeks here along the way.


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Old 07-24-2018, 10:00 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I figure my options are as follows:

1. Put my Spott Hogg back on, change to 100 grain heads to drop arrow weight to 503 gr and live with the wide pin gap at 243ish fps.

2. Add twist to string to increase draw weight, hopefully to 70# and retest each setup.

3. Purchase a new string and replace factory string (which could be used as an emergency backup) and retest.

3. Go back to original setup (436 gr ICS Hunter 340 at 266 fps). I thought about adding weighted insert or heavier head to that setup, but fear a fresh or twisted string that brings me >70# might result in weak spine from 340s.



4. or maybe 5. ...


Ask the boss, JNet, to get you a new bow for pre- Christmas..
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
Bows are designed to perform best at spec. Bow hunters are responsible to maintain equipment for max performance. Bowshops are the guys that keep bows at spec to maintain max performance. Doesn’t matter if bow is purchased there, or elsewhere when determining best arrow for game choice.


Point is, even YOU can't do that if the customer never brings the bow in the shop or doesn't let you look at it. Responsibility is solely mine here.
I know just enough to not want to be a guy that just takes my bow to the shop to let somebody else do it for me, and yet lack the right tools to do it efficiently.


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Old 07-24-2018, 10:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Point is, even YOU can't do that if the customer never brings the bow in the shop or doesn't let you look at it. Responsibility is solely mine here.
I know just enough to not want to be a guy that just takes my bow to the shop to let somebody else do it for me, and yet lack the right tools to do it efficiently.


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You are right. I’m not gonna recommend arrows for your set-up until I check it. Your hunting set-up is yours, and your responsibility.
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:26 PM   #31
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LOL! So if I called you and said "Hey Rock, I'd like to test a heavier arrow and foc setup with my HTR. I'd like the arrows to be 29" and be around 500-550 grains, and would like to see how they fly with a 4 fletch setup. Here are the specs on my setup...." you wouldn't offer some recommendations until you can look at my bow even though I'm 300+ miles away?

Nevermind, I'll call CCR.
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:27 PM   #32
rocky
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Point is, even YOU can't do that if the customer never brings the bow in the shop or doesn't let you look at it. Responsibility is solely mine here.
I know just enough to not want to be a guy that just takes my bow to the shop to let somebody else do it for me, and yet lack the right tools to do it efficiently.


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I find this post silly and hypocritical for a person that owns a “bowhunting” website, and promotes and takes money from archery shops to maintain this website.
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:29 PM   #33
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LOL! So if I called you and said "Hey Rock, I'd like to test a heavier arrow and foc setup with my HTR. I'd like the arrows to be 29" and be around 500-550 grains, and would like to see how they fly with a 4 fletch setup. Here are the specs on my setup...." you wouldn't offer some recommendations until you can look at my bow even though I'm 300+ miles away?

Nevermind, I'll call CCR.
I would ask if you for a fact knew that your bow was to spec.����

Last edited by rocky; 07-24-2018 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:37 PM   #34
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It's hypocritical to want to work on my own bow instead of dropping it off to let somebody else set it up and returning a few days later to retrieve it, with no clue how to make a field repair if something goes wrong while I'm hunting?

Do you ever go back and read stuff you wrote the following morning and cringe at what you typed?
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:45 PM   #35
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This thread was doomed 2 hours and 45 minutes ago.
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:47 PM   #36
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It's hypocritical to want to work on my own bow instead of dropping it off to let somebody else set it up and returning a few days later to retrieve it, with no clue how to make a field repair if something goes wrong while I'm hunting?

Do you ever go back and read stuff you wrote the following morning and cringe at what you typed?
No, I don’t. Do you? Arrow choice is not a field repair.
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:53 PM   #37
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I am curious about the quad fletch. I shot them many years ago with an 84 lb Proline with a serious overdraw, but I haven't seen those for a while.
What was your logic with those Michael?

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Old 07-24-2018, 10:53 PM   #38
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I would ask if you for a fact knew that your bow was to spec.����
…and I would have replied "yeah, send 'em!"

Look, I want the arrows built for a bow when it's IN spec. I took my bow to B2B today, didn't see the results I was expecting, used Tim's tools to check and troubleshoot and identified a few potential issues that are all correctible in multiple ways. I could add a few twists to the string, or because I want a backup for my hunt I will likely purchase a new one and keep the current one for an emergency field repair (which I know how to do because I didn't just drop it off at the shop...oh and because I own a "bowhunting" website and have learned some basic setup and tuning techniques from our members.) I offered to pay Tim for use of his facility, but of course he declined.


If buying gear from CCR or B2B was a hassle, I'd find another source. Fortunately both of those shops allow me some leeway to test a few things the way I want to (maybe nudging me a different direction along the way) without insisting I do it their way.
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:58 PM   #39
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…and I would have replied "yeah, send 'em!"

Look, I want the arrows built for a bow when it's IN spec. I took my bow to B2B today, didn't see the results I was expecting, used Tim's tools to check and troubleshoot and identified a few potential issues that are all correctible in multiple ways. I could add a few twists to the string, or because I want a backup for my hunt I will likely purchase a new one and keep the current one for an emergency field repair (which I know how to do because I didn't just drop it off at the shop...oh and because I own a "bowhunting" website and have learned some basic setup and tuning techniques from our members.) I offered to pay Tim for use of his facility, but of course he declined.


If buying gear from CCR or B2B was a hassle, I'd find another source. Fortunately both of those shops allow me some leeway to test a few things the way I want to (maybe nudging me a different direction along the way) without insisting I do it their way.
Glad to see you use and give kudos to shops that sponsor your site.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:00 PM   #40
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We all want to talk about mass and velocity, but I feel like we are missing part of the equation if we aren't talking about distance.

A 700grn arrow at 200fps is great at 15yds, but what if you want to be able to shoot out to 50 yards?

You'll need a much lighter arrow and a faster velocity.

Personally I'd go back to the 436gr x 266fps, and go up and down from there slightly. FLbs in the 50's is more than enough to take down an elk, 60's would be nicer.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:07 PM   #41
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Yall do you.

Anyone know of a study with the crono done at the target?
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:08 PM   #42
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I am curious about the quad fletch. I shot them many years ago with an 84 lb Proline with a serious overdraw, but I haven't seen those for a while.
What was your logic with those Michael?

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I've listened to a few podcasts recommending them with heavier foc setups with fixed coc heads, I suppose to combat potential steering issues with the broadhead. I feel like I'm almost between spines, with 300 being borderline weak with the 125+insert+weight, so I figured a few extra gr. at the back couldn't hurt (although probably won't make an appreciable difference.)
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:24 PM   #43
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We all want to talk about mass and velocity, but I feel like we are missing part of the equation if we aren't talking about distance.

A 700grn arrow at 200fps is great at 15yds, but what if you want to be able to shoot out to 50 yards?

You'll need a much lighter arrow and a faster velocity.

Personally I'd go back to the 436gr x 266fps, and go up and down from there slightly. FLbs in the 50's is more than enough to take down an elk, 60's would be nicer.
If you can get through the other minutia above, that's petty much the jist of my original post. I think the 436gr@266 will be sufficient, but I want to explore other options that may optimize all the factors that result in the most accuracy within my comfortable range (or maybe even extend that range).
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:44 PM   #44
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If you can get through the other minutia above, that's petty much the jist of my original post. I think the 436gr@266 will be sufficient, but I want to explore other options that may optimize all the factors that result in the most accuracy within my comfortable range (or maybe even extend that range).


It’s simply 2 cents that don’t matter much. But, I’d do this and feel comfortable knowing what I had and how I shoot it.

Good luck in them hills young man!


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Old 07-24-2018, 11:48 PM   #45
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I only took a 500 grain arrow on my moose hunt.. I truly feel that from 430-500 grains is the sweet spot for any North American animal... In my opinion if you hit a bone that a 430 grain arrow wont go through then a 500 grain arrow wont go through it either. I think the broadhead choice, spine and tune is way more important. If your shooting a big mechanical with a flat blade angle that is going to penetrate less than a coc iron will.. If your arrow isnt flying true and is hitting the target at an angle that is going to affect penetration. Having a arrow with a spine that is too weak will allow more energy to be sucked up when it hits something hard..


Everyone wants a HEAVY arrow and then they quote the Ashby stuff.. What they fail to also put in there is the ashby stuff is truly heavy.. Like 650 grains.. And also must be accompanied by a single bevel broadhead.

Other than my moose hunt when I was shooting like 260 fps i set every bow up the same.. I set it up with an arrow that shoots 275-290 fps.. The arrow changes with each bow but I shoot for that number. Last year for elk,deer and antelope that arrow was a 300 spine pierce with a 100 grain head that ended up at 435 grains.. It blew through everything..

STOP OVERTHINGKING IT..
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:52 PM   #46
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I only took a 500 grain arrow on my moose hunt.. I truly feel that from 430-500 grains is the sweet spot for any North American animal... In my opinion if you hit a bone that a 430 grain arrow wont go through then a 500 grain arrow wont go through it either. I think the broadhead choice, spine and tune is way more important. If your shooting a big mechanical with a flat blade angle that is going to penetrate less than a coc iron will.. If your arrow isnt flying true and is hitting the target at an angle that is going to affect penetration. Having a arrow with a spine that is too weak will allow more energy to be sucked up when it hits something hard..


Everyone wants a HEAVY arrow and then they quote the Ashby stuff.. What they fail to also put in there is the ashby stuff is truly heavy.. Like 650 grains.. And also must be accompanied by a single bevel broadhead.

Other than my moose hunt when I was shooting like 260 fps i set every bow up the same.. I set it up with an arrow that shoots 275-290 fps.. The arrow changes with each bow but I shoot for that number. Last year for elk,deer and antelope that arrow was a 300 spine pierce with a 100 grain head that ended up at 435 grains.. It blew through everything..

STOP OVERTHINGKING IT..


Good stuff!


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Old 07-24-2018, 11:58 PM   #47
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Cfortner touched on the issue, but what shot ranges would be expected on an elk?
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:00 AM   #48
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my advice looking at the arrow you have built up is ditch the extra weighted outsert, and shoot 100 grain tips It should spine out perfect for your bow..

gt pierce 300
29"
gt insert system with gt collar and 100 grain tip

that should put you in the ball park of 440-460.. That pierce arrow is one of the best Ive ever shot..
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:29 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I've listened to a few podcasts recommending them with heavier foc setups with fixed coc heads, I suppose to combat potential steering issues with the broadhead. I feel like I'm almost between spines, with 300 being borderline weak with the 125+insert+weight, so I figured a few extra gr. at the back couldn't hurt (although probably won't make an appreciable difference.)
I am going to watch and follow this. I have a 29" 70 lb HTR as well, so if I am smart, I am going to watch, listen, and learn.
I have an opinion here from having chunked a few bazillion arrows from that setup, but that don't mean I am right.

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Old 07-25-2018, 04:41 AM   #50
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That was rough.

I'm chasing elk this year as well, and decided I needed some heavier arrows. My current whitetail arrow is 386 grains. I have T-Rex arms as my buddy put it. Draw length and arrows are 27".

Went with Carbon Express Pile Driver 250's. Final weight is 420 grains with a 100gr broadhead. I'm shooting 66 pounds and my pin gap was maxed out on my Spot Hogg. I have since moved the sight closer to the bow to help with the gap issue. Not sure what speed I'm getting, don't care, doesn't matter. As long as I can make the shot, it's a dead elk.

I used to live in Washington and chased elk every year. My arrows were always 550 to 650 grains (aluminum) and I was shooting 70 - 80 pounds. Had a hunting partner that shot close to the same weight arrows. Hit a bull right in the shoulder. Even with the heavy arrow, zero penetration. Shot placement is key.
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