Our Bows & Fast Flight Strings

[RickBarbee]

Let me preface this by saying:
This is not a recommendation one way, or the other.
I'm simply offering my experience/experiences as additional information to draw from.

I've been using Fast Flight string materials on all my bows since 1985 (Maybe 84). Don't remember for sure, but it was actually "before" fast flight materials first hit the market/shelves for sale, and I was testing some pre release samples.

In all that time I've only had 1 (one) rip the tips off, and zero problems since.

My daughter dry fired that bow, and the string did not have padded (for size) loops. If those loops had been properly sized, I am relatively sure the bow would have survived, although it did have very thin flat tips on it.

I hate thin (back to belly) limb tips, and I'm not fond of wide tips, even if they are thick.

A moderate width, and thick limb tip, with properly cut in string grooves, which produce a non bent, or very slight loop bend is the best, and in my opinion is the most important aspect to limb tip structural integrity.

Glues are important, and the new glues are better, but the old glues (urac I believe) is ok if the bowyer got a good scald on it.

The most important thing about limb tips is their thickness back to belly. The thicker (within reason) the better.

Use a reasonably weighted arrow, properly tune it to the bow, and in my experience you'll be ok.

Dry fires are the pits with any string/string material.

Rick

P.S.

I've seen just as many (probably more) limb tips ripped off with polyester strings as I have with fast flight strings.

[60 Deluxe]

Put this on the Leatherwall and go make some popcorn.

I agree whole heartedly about the tip structure. I look at some of tips on high end bows and wonder how they keep from breaking on the first shot. I'm using UltraCam material on almost all of my shooter bows and it works great. On cheap bows I even use the super low stretch materials used in crossbow and compound string sets.

[Junkers88]

How's this work with older bows? I ask because, on recommendations from this forum, I use only B50 type strings (made by Daniel) on my Bear recurves. Neither one is any newer than 1972 and I was told that a fast flight string would rip the tips right off of them eventually. I'd love to get some more speed out of these old sticks but don't want to risk destroying them. To be honest I'll probably only ever shoot pre 1975 recurves as they seem to like me as much as I like them.

Richard.

[DRT]

The small amount of speed you'll gain isn't worth the chance you'd take.

Gary

[RickBarbee]

How's this work with older bows? I ask because, on recommendations from this forum, I use only B50 type strings (made by Daniel) on my Bear recurves. Neither one is any newer than 1972 and I was told that a fast flight string would rip the tips right off of them eventually. I'd love to get some more speed out of these old sticks but don't want to risk destroying them. To be honest I'll probably only ever shoot pre 1975 recurves as they seem to like me as much as I like them.

Richard.

Like I said, I don't/won't recommend one way, or the other.
Lots (Lots) of folks including me do it, and get away with just fine.
Then, there are those (few comparatively) who don't have such a good experience.

Like I said, I've seen just as many, and maybe more limb tips ripped off with B50, than I have with fastflight. To date there is zero empirical evidence to show it was the string causing a failure, and not just the bow's time to go.

Read what I said about the limb tips, and compare what you have to what I said. Yes, there are bows with limb tips I don't like/trust, but I don't like those type tips regardless of the string on the bow.

The small amount of speed you'll gain isn't worth the chance you'd take.

Gary

Small amount? I can pretty much guarantee some where in the vicinity of 16 fps (or more) when going from a polyester string to one of my strings.
That ain't nothin ta sneeze at.


Rick

[60 Deluxe]

Lots of guys use hard strings on old bows. The trick seems to be in getting the loops padded enough to spread the shock and pressure on release. You can use about ten strands of some of the materials but pad the loops to eighteen or twenty strands (on a 45 lb bow) and get a little better performance. I seldom shoot my older bows as I really like the modern stuff so it is no big deal to me. What I like to do is to push the envelope a bit with the cheap modern bows to see just how much I can improve the performance. These are three piece bows and if I blow up a set of limbs, so what? I can find another set for $40-$50 and keep playing. You can not do that with your nearly fifty year old Grizzly. I don't have a chronograph yet, but it appears to me that using a hard enough and skinny enough string, I can get quite a lot more than a couple or three feet per second more out of those bows.

[Junkers88]

Read what I said about the limb tips, and compare what you have to what I said. Yes, there are bows with limb tips I don't like/trust, but I don't like those type tips regardless of the string on the bow.


Rick

Just went and looked at the tips on both bows. The 1969 Grizz in 60lbs has tips that are easily half as thick as the 1972 Grizz in 45lbs. I mean they are THIN compared to the lighter bow. I've looked at some K Mags that have even thinner tips on them from the same era. Hmmm...... I'll stay with B50's for now although the temptation to buy another 45lb Grizz from the 70's and put a FF string on it to see if I can speed it up is there. I'll never do it with the one I have now as I bought that one from 60Deluxe on here and it will probably be buried with me.

Richard.

[McK]

I pretty much agree with Rick. I started using ff then dynaflight strings on a 1961 bear polar maybe 20 years ago. I shot many thousand arrows from that bow with a 30" draw. Since then I have used it on many early 60's bear bows as well as several osage selfbows with no overlays. The fastflight type strings have lasted for years on bows that would have worn through multiple dacron strings. Also in hot weather dacron strings have a tendency to elongate where lowstretch strings don't nearly as much. As for speed difference I noticed about 6fps with relatively heavy arrows, but that would be like the speed increase of a bow 3-4lbs heavier. I am not questioning Ricks 16 fps increase, just not my experience so far....would love to try Rick's strings myself.

[RickBarbee]

A little story to go along with this, and to show how sometimes the strings get the blame unfairly.

At one of our shoots in Abilene some years back, I shot on Saturday, so I could help run registration & concessions on Sunday.

This was back when Fast Flight first started being used, but before there were many Trad Bows officially rated for it.

That Sunday morning early, and before a lot of shooters started showing up, I watched a guy getting out of his truck with his gear.

When he closed the door on the truck, he slammed the bottom limb in it, at which point he cussed a blue streak, but continued on to the practice range to warm up. I went over, and looked at his bow while he was pulling arrows. Nice gouge in the side about 3" down from the tip, and an obviously cracked (end to end) tip overlay.

He shot a bit longer, then sat around waiting for his buddies to show up. The buddies showed, and they headed out to shoot.

Right at lunch time, and halfway done with the course, he & his buddies came back in, and this guy once again was cussing a blue streak (LOUDLY).
That bottom limb for about 4 to 5 inches was shattered.

His language was really bad, and really loud, and we decided someone needed to ask him to cut it out, and calm it down. I was elected to do the deed, and did so.

I went to the table where they sat. All his buddies were just setting there stone faced, while this guys berated fast flight strings with every foul word he could think of. I asked him to please tone it down, and that just made him get even louder.

Finally I asked him if he had considered the slamming of his truck door on the limb earlier, and the damage which occurred at that time as the culprit of the blowup.

His buddies all busted laughing, he stopped cussing, or even speaking, grabbed his stuff, and left.

Don't know who he was, and never saw him again, BUT I can say with certainty - It wasn't the string that caused the bow to fail.

Rick

[Junkers88]

One other question. With regards to tuning does the FF string require further tuning? I mean lets say I'm shooting a 512gr arrow out of my 45lb'r and (now that I finally bought a bow square and have the BH set) will a FF string require a heavier spine arrow since the speed has increased and the stretch has decreased? Less weight on the front end? Can I run a lighter spine arrow and pack on more speed?

Just wondering.

Richard.

[RickBarbee]

One other question. With regards to tuning does the FF string require further tuning? I mean lets say I'm shooting a 512gr arrow out of my 45lb'r and (now that I finally bought a bow square and have the BH set) will a FF string require a heavier spine arrow since the speed has increased and the stretch has decreased? Less weight on the front end? Can I run a lighter spine arrow and pack on more speed?

Just wondering.

Richard.

Generally speaking, a fast flight string will require a dynamically stiffer spine of arrow, BUT sometimes you can make the necessary adjustment with strike plate thickness/position. It really depends on the string though.

Rick

[tradtiger]

Are there specific measurements to define tip thickness as suitable or not to handle Fast Flight strings? Maybe even a rule of thumb like "double or triple the thickness of the string loop", for instance?

[DRT]

Had an old Bear bow just completely come apart at the tip. The first 2 or 3 outer laminates broke off right at the string groove and popped outwards and the rest just folded over in. Not the string, it was a B50 endless loop. But it looked like wear from years of shooting. The other end looked ready to go as well. That was back in the 80s and it was at least a 60s model bow.

Gary

[RickBarbee]

Are there specific measurements to define tip thickness as suitable or not to handle Fast Flight strings? Maybe even a rule of thumb like "double or triple the thickness of the string loop", for instance?

I've never measured, so don't have dimensions.

What I can say is this - the limbs tips I like best, and the ones seemingly to be the most indestructible, are those akin to a deep stack longbow tip with a nice hard overlay on the back, and string grooves that are angled to lessen, or even eliminate any bend in the loop.

You seldom see a longbow with blown up limb tips, and when you do it was generally caused by something other than the string (like slamming it in your truck door).

That don't mean there aren't some tips not meeting that criteria, that aren't perfectly fine. The material used, and how well it's all stuck together go a long way toward making it hold up, but on a laminated bow, a good hard overlay is always desirable.

Rick