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Old 10-21-2019, 06:30 PM   #1
SHSU18
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I have a couple questions for the Green Screen. Just curious on what the rules state and had a buddy wondering as well. When you shoot a deer with a bow and call in a dog in bow season, is the dogs owner allowed to use a gun to dispatch it? Even though its bow season only? My second would be on tagging it? If the person with the dog makes the finishing kill, shouldn't they be legally tagging the animal? Just sparking up some conversation lol
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:33 PM   #2
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Nope and nope.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:34 PM   #3
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Nope and nope.
That's the common sense answer. Is there anything actually on this? So you thing these guys with dogs have been finishing these wounded deer off with a bow? And are they allowed to dispatch them at night? it is illegal to kill a deer at night.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:37 PM   #4
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My Grandfather was a Game Warden. The legal answer to both is no. The humane answer may not be the same.

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Old 10-21-2019, 06:38 PM   #5
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Pocket knife might be legal furing archery season...

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Old 10-21-2019, 06:38 PM   #6
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61.060. DEFENSE TO PROSECUTION: HUMANE DISPATCH OF
CERTAIN GAME ANIMALS AND BIRDS. (a) In this section:
(1) "Dispatch" means to kill by any humane method.
(2) "Game animal" has the meaning assigned by Section
63.001.
(3) "Game bird" has the meaning assigned by Section
64.001.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution for a violation of this
chapter or of a regulation adopted or proclamation issued under the
authority of this chapter by the commission that the actor
dispatched a game animal or game bird that:
(1) was mortally wounded, not through the actor's
conduct; or
(2) behaved in a manner that:
(A) is inconsistent with the manner in which a
game animal or game bird that is not diseased typically behaves;
and
(B) leads a reasonable person to believe that the
game animal or game bird poses a substantial risk of serious harm to
itself, a person, or other wildlife.
(c) The commission may adopt rules, including rules
concerning the disposition of a game animal or a game bird that has
been dispatched under this section, to implement this section.

Added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 157, § 1, eff. May 24, 2005.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:39 PM   #7
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Bingo
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:41 PM   #8
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I read that as common sense in a law?
Is that what I read?
Can't be right...
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:41 PM   #9
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Also allegedly clipped from the General Orders from the Law Enforcement Division at TPW.

Quote:
2.2 To “hunt” and to “retrieve” are separate and distinct acts.

2.3 For purposes of this TPWD policy, the “hunt” is over at the end of legal hunting hours when the game animal is either wounded or killed. It is practically impossible for a hunter to know in all cases if he/she is retrieving a wounded animal or a dead animal.

2.4 This policy is consistent with the language of TPW Code, Sec. 62.011, which makes it clear that the duty to retrieve is triggered by the killing or wounding of the game animal regardless of the fact that legal hunting time may have expired.

2.5 In order to avoid conflict between failure to retrieve a game animal or game bird and other general hunting statutes (hunting at night, hunting with a light, hunting for hire, and/or tagging a deer), and in order to provide consistent law enforcement statewide and to assist hunters and persons in complying with the retrieval and waste of game statute (TPWD Code, §62.011), Texas game wardens will allow the practice of retrieving legitimately wounded game as outlined by the following Procedures/Guidelines.

3.1 Definitions

3.1.1 Dispatch – means to kill by a humane method.

3.1.2 Wounded deer – means a deer that is showing signs of injury and/or is leaving a blood trail, when shot (legal firearm or lawful archery or crossbow) and wounded by a hunter. (One caveat; A wounded deer is defined in regulation as a deer leaving a trail of blood; however, not all wounded deer leave a blood trail; therefore, a deer that is showing obvious signs of injury from being shot may be considered a wounded deer).
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:41 PM   #10
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Bingo
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:43 PM   #11
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Legally, the answer to both is no. That common sense and what is humane varies by county and Warden. Its all judgement call by the Warden. My Gpa would hand you his pistol to end the suffering. I know some that wouldnt.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:43 PM   #12
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yall are good!
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:49 PM   #13
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It's a slippery slope up the side of a $#!+ mountain with a greedy govt monster living in the swamp below! Ethically the goal should be to recover a wounded or potentially lost animal. Realistically it's going to depend on how the person enforcing the law interprets the law and the circumstances.

I stand corrected after reading Sika's post!

Last edited by tex4k; 10-21-2019 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:51 PM   #14
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It's usually, just like other situations, what is the "right" thing to do, isn't legal, and what is legal isn't right. Ethics plays a large part in it, even if it means explaining it to judge or jury. Just my two cents.
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:32 PM   #15
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Sitka is the only person to listen to here folks.

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Old 10-21-2019, 07:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Sitka is the only person to listen to here folks.
Sorry for posting!!!

JK
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tex4k View Post
It's a slippery slope up the side of a $#!+ mountain with a greedy govt monster living in the swamp below! Ethically the goal should be to recover a wounded or potentially lost animal. Realistically it's going to depend on how the person enforcing the law interprets the law and the circumstances.

I stand corrected after reading Sika's post!


You’re right...game wardens aren’t lawyers and some of them don’t seem to know the laws very well. You very well could receive a citation but could probably get it thrown out.

A tracker friend of mine had a Polk county game warden get on to him because he didn’t run his dogs on a leash (not a statute) and because he dispatched the hunter’s deer. After looking in to it the warden came back and admitted he was wrong.

The intent of the law was to prevent harm or suffering to a game animal, and allow anyone, except for the actor, to dispatch the animal.



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Old 10-22-2019, 09:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Sika View Post
You’re right...game wardens aren’t lawyers and some of them don’t seem to know the laws very well. You very well could receive a citation but could probably get it thrown out.

A tracker friend of mine had a Polk county game warden get on to him because he didn’t run his dogs on a leash (not a statute) and because he dispatched the hunter’s deer. After looking in to it the warden came back and admitted he was wrong.

The intent of the law was to prevent harm or suffering to a game animal, and allow anyone, except for the actor, to dispatch the animal.



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Yep he told me about this incident and carries around a copy of what you posted to show to Game Wardens.
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calrob View Post
Sorry for posting!!!

JK
You're excused

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Old 10-22-2019, 03:28 PM   #20
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So, to me this is still not clear. The statutes seem to contradict, but thay just be my inability to totally understand legalese.

So during bow season, after dark, you find your wounded deer, what methods are legal to dispatch? Any?
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Old 10-22-2019, 03:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by double bogey View Post
So, to me this is still not clear. The statutes seem to contradict, but thay just be my inability to totally understand legalese.

So during bow season, after dark, you find your wounded deer, what methods are legal to dispatch? Any?
Any humane method according to the General Orders
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Old 10-22-2019, 04:44 PM   #22
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Sitka is the only person to listen to here folks.

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Who the eff is Sitka?
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Old 10-22-2019, 04:51 PM   #23
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Who the eff is Sitka?
Sika's sister. She trains blood trailing cats
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:33 PM   #24
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Being a tracker, I called the local GW last year and was told that if I put one down during archery season, to contact her and give her the details along with the hunters name so that if the hunter is reported by processor for a gun kill during archery season, they won't get in trouble.
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:33 PM   #25
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Sika's sister. She trains blood trailing cats
For realz. I thought errybody knew that

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Old 10-22-2019, 05:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
So, to me this is still not clear. The statutes seem to contradict, but thay just be my inability to totally understand legalese.

So during bow season, after dark, you find your wounded deer, what methods are legal to dispatch? Any?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineywoods View Post
Any humane method according to the General Orders
Though “not through the actors conduct” so technically if YOU find YOUR wounded deer after dark during bow season someone else has to dispatch it.
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Old 10-22-2019, 06:06 PM   #27
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I keep TPWD Code Section 61.060 bookmarked on my phone for hunters to read for themselves.

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/parks-a...ct-61-060.html

I also contact the Warden in the county I'll be tracking in.

To boil down the "Legalese," a person can dispatch a mortally wounded animal by any ethical means. It can't be the person that created the mortal wound. This also answers the tagging question, because the "dispatcher" is only ensuring that the animal, whose death is eminent as caused by the hunter, dies in a place and time that ensures the animal goes to the hunter and not the coyotes.
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Old 10-22-2019, 06:07 PM   #28
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Hate to post on this again, the lady with the dog legally has no right to kill the deer either. The dog only has a right to find it. Its up to the Warden to let anyone to end the suffering. Its not up to citizens, right or wrong, they have to use judgement. I was raised to end any suffering quickly. Thats not the states position.

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Old 10-22-2019, 07:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Calrob View Post
Hate to post on this again, the lady with the dog legally has no right to kill the deer either. The dog only has a right to find it. Its up to the Warden to let anyone to end the suffering. Its not up to citizens, right or wrong, they have to use judgement. I was raised to end any suffering quickly. Thats not the states position.

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You may be confusing Sec 61.060, which clearly states that "the lady with the dog" may legally dispatch a mortally wounded animal by any humane means if she didn't cause the wound, with Sec 62.0065 (d), which states, "(d) The commission by rule may authorize the use of dogs to trail wounded deer." TPWD Commission authorized: "Not more than two dogs may be used to trail a wounded deer in counties not listed above. A “wounded deer” is a deer leaving a blood trail." The unlawful counties being: Angelina, Hardin, Jasper, Nacogdoches, Newton, Orange, Sabine, San Augustine, Shelby, and Tyler counties.
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:12 PM   #30
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You may be confusing Sec 61.060, which clearly states that "the lady with the dog" may legally dispatch a mortally wounded animal by any humane means if she didn't cause the wound, with Sec 62.0065 (d), which states, "(d) The commission by rule may authorize the use of dogs to trail wounded deer." TPWD Commission authorized: "Not more than two dogs may be used to trail a wounded deer in counties not listed above. A “wounded deer” is a deer leaving a blood trail." The unlawful counties being: Angelina, Hardin, Jasper, Nacogdoches, Newton, Orange, Sabine, San Augustine, Shelby, and Tyler counties.

I would suggest you try that in a bleeding hearts Game Warden county. Its a judgement call on what needs to be killed to avoid suffering.

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Old 10-22-2019, 07:16 PM   #31
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Unfortunately, Ive seen it. Whats mortally wounded? Wounded or bleeding out of its mouth, laying down? Im not arguing that a suffering animal should be put down. Just saying, with experience, the state doesnt know the difference. Most Wardens dont know whats a dying animal.

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Old 10-22-2019, 08:50 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Sika View Post
Though “not through the actors conduct” so technically if YOU find YOUR wounded deer after dark during bow season someone else has to dispatch it.

That is the part I thought contradicted. Strange that the original shooter couldn't be the one to dispatch.


Calrob, Sika is a professional tracker. It is her job to know the laws and do it right. She does several that get documented on this site every year with good success.
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Old 10-22-2019, 10:01 PM   #33
Sika
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Originally Posted by double bogey View Post
That is the part I thought contradicted. Strange that the original shooter couldn't be the one to dispatch.


Calrob, Sika is a professional tracker. It is her job to know the laws and do it right. She does several that get documented on this site every year with good success.
Yeah it definitely could use some clarification. I guess it’s to prevent people from doing something unethical.
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Old 10-23-2019, 05:50 AM   #34
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Unfortunately, Ive seen it. Whats mortally wounded? Wounded or bleeding out of its mouth, laying down? Im not arguing that a suffering animal should be put down. Just saying, with experience, the state doesnt know the difference. Most Wardens dont know whats a dying animal.

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It's really pretty simple.

Any wounded deer that can be bayed with a single dog is extremely likely to be mortally wounded.

That same deer can be easily taken down by a small pack of yotes, unable to survive beyond a few hours.

I think pretty highly of lots of the tracking dogs around here, ours included....but they aren't catching and baying a healthy deer.

It simply isn't happening.
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:02 AM   #35
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Though “not through the actors conduct” so technically if YOU find YOUR wounded deer after dark during bow season someone else has to dispatch it.
Somehow, I think someone got this wrong.
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:30 AM   #36
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It's really pretty simple.

Any wounded deer that can be bayed with a single dog is extremely likely to be mortally wounded.

That same deer can be easily taken down by a small pack of yotes, unable to survive beyond a few hours.

I think pretty highly of lots of the tracking dogs around here, ours included....but they aren't catching and baying a healthy deer.

It simply isn't happening.
I certainly thought it was
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:37 AM   #37
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Somehow, I think someone got this wrong.
yeah, if they got everything right the first time, we could go ahead and kill all the lawyers.

Then what would we have to talk about?
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:38 AM   #38
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That Calrob guy with the Hereford head avatar is stirring the pot. And the deep East texas counties on that list are known for running dogs on deer the old fashion way. Old habits die hard over there.
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