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Old 11-19-2019, 07:48 AM   #1
ateague11
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Default Aging by teeth where to send?

Where can I send off deer teeth so they can be aged exactly and how much does it cost?
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:04 AM   #2
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Where can I send off deer teeth so they can be aged exactly and how much does it cost?
www.deerage.com They are in Burnet Texas - normally around $40-80 per deer based on what turn around time you want
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:02 AM   #3
glen
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Make a board if you do this. Glue on board and get every age group. Same area should have same browse and minerals and look same. Only thing that may change your aging board will be if you change your feed program it may have some minor changes. Best way for regular folks to properly age deer in my opinion
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:19 AM   #4
Chance Love
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Where can I send off deer teeth so they can be aged exactly and how much does it cost?
They canít be aged EXACTLY. Donít even waste your money sending them off. All they can tell you is what age the teeth are supposed to show. It wonít tell you what age they actually are. Just my opinion...with a little experience thrown in.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:30 AM   #5
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All I know is I've seen some very old deer come from the black land prairie region, and there teeth hardly shown any wear. The old standard tooth aging board would be of no use in this area. Got to be the soil type or what there eating isn't wearing there teeth as bad. Trail cam pics back up their age.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:33 AM   #6
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They canít be aged EXACTLY. Donít even waste your money sending them off. All they can tell you is what age the teeth are supposed to show. It wonít tell you what age they actually are. Just my opinion...with a little experience thrown in.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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Old 11-19-2019, 10:33 AM   #7
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They canít be aged EXACTLY. Donít even waste your money sending them off. All they can tell you is what age the teeth are supposed to show. It wonít tell you what age they actually are. Just my opinion...with a little experience thrown in.
Do you have experience looking at a cross section of the root of the tooth? I believe that's what deerage.com does.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:35 AM   #8
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visual aging by teeth is not very accurate. Even when done by "professionals".
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:50 AM   #9
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They are now in Montana but still do the aging. They don’t require the whole lower jaw, only a couple of teeth. $33 sounds reasonable enough to me.

From their FAQ:

HOW DOES CEMENTUM-ANNULI COMPARE TO THAT OF ERUPTION-WEAR?
The molar wear technique of aging ungulates compares the tooth wear of known age animals to the tooth wear of harvested animals. The theory is that you should be able to determine age by finding a match, wear wise, with a known age specimen. I think the cold hard facts show that this is just guesswork, especially for deer 2 Ĺ years or older. Simply spoken, molar wear does not work if you want an accurate age of the animal you harvested. It is a myth that is still taught to wildlife biologists in college today, even though only one study done in 1949 purported to have scientific evidence it actually worked. Ever study done since then has been unable to verify its accuracy.
The cementum-annuli (cross-sectioning teeth) method of aging deer, elk and other wild animals is much different. It first requires decalcifying the central lower incisors (sometimes the M1 molar or other tooth) and then cutting cross-sections of the root tips to a thinness measured in microns. The slice of tooth is then placed on a slide and a special dye is added to enhance viewing. It is placed under a microscope. Lines within the tooth’s diameter are readily visible and can be counted much like the rings of growth on a tree, indicating a deer’s age.

Last edited by muddyz; 11-19-2019 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance Love View Post
They canít be aged EXACTLY. Donít even waste your money sending them off. All they can tell you is what age the teeth are supposed to show. It wonít tell you what age they actually are. Just my opinion...with a little experience thrown in.


Chance - I was under the impression that cementum annuli aging was an accurate way to actually age deer. Have you not found that to be the case?
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:19 AM   #11
ar3731guy
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We sent some jaws off a few years ago from known aged deer. These were deer that were tagged as fawns. The results were all over the board. Deer we knew were 4 years old came back at anywhere from 3 to 6 years old. So take it for what's its worth.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:32 AM   #12
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Actual scientific studies have been conducted that demonstrate the inaccuracy of the tooth replacement wear (TRW) and cementum annuli (CA) methods. As others have said, the TRW method is highly inaccurate the older they are. The CA method is more accurate, but only averages around 60% when attempting to determine exact year age.

Results of one study:

Name:  cementum_accuracy__large.jpg
Views: 378
Size:  122.3 KB
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:32 AM   #13
Chance Love
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Originally Posted by Lone_Wolf View Post
Do you have experience looking at a cross section of the root of the tooth? I believe that's what deerage.com does.
That is what they do. In my experience this method is no more effective than our guesses. If you are asking if I have ever personally cut a tooth, then no.

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Chance - I was under the impression that cementum annuli aging was an accurate way to actually age deer. Have you not found that to be the case?
It is widely known to be inaccurate. And in my opinion itís a waste of $$.

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We sent some jaws off a few years ago from known aged deer. These were deer that were tagged as fawns. The results were all over the board. Deer we knew were 4 years old came back at anywhere from 3 to 6 years old. So take it for what's its worth.
This is what I have experienced. It simply is no more accurate than our guesses.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:23 PM   #14
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Thanks for the info and this would be for a blackland prairie deer
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:12 PM   #15
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Thanks for the info and this would be for a blackland prairie deer
Oh, then the answer is 3.5 years old.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:21 PM   #16
ateague11
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Oh, then the answer is 3.5 years old.
Lol.. this deer should be 6.5 plus..
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:02 PM   #17
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Send me the jaw and I will tell you for only $50
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:38 PM   #18
wytex
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That is what they do. In my experience this method is no more effective than our guesses. If you are asking if I have ever personally cut a tooth, then no.



It is widely known to be inaccurate. And in my opinion itís a waste of $$.



This is what I have experienced. It simply is no more accurate than our guesses.
Actually for the right areas it works very accurately. The layers are only formed in climates with extremes in seasons, say warm springs and summers with extreme cold in winter. The WG&F lab has done studies with known deer ages and compared their results to the lab in Montana, on their known age deer. Our lab was much more accurate with their results.
It will not work for your southern climate deer.
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Old 11-19-2019, 03:30 PM   #19
Chance Love
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Actually for the right areas it works very accurately. The layers are only formed in climates with extremes in seasons, say warm springs and summers with extreme cold in winter. The WG&F lab has done studies with known deer ages and compared their results to the lab in Montana, on their known age deer. Our lab was much more accurate with their results.
It will not work for your southern climate deer.
In these certain areas you speak of, is tooth wear aging accurate?
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:10 PM   #20
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As explained to me by the gal that does the aging for WG&F, any area with extreme season changes can have accurate aging on teeth by the cementum. Mainly not in the South as she explained it. Our animals have very different diets over winter as compared to the growing season.
Since they use this method, contact the Lab that wrote the book so to speak: https://matsonslab.com/
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:48 PM   #21
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What does it matter? It is a dead deer so not getting any younger or older
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:58 PM   #22
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What does it matter? It is a dead deer so not getting any younger or older
If you are trying to manage a ranch to grow top end LF deer it is huge - shooting bucks before their prime (6-8 years old) is critical to the long term quality of deer you will grow -

I saw a 175 inch 9 point a few years ago. I knew he was only 5 years old. Hard to let him walk but I did. The next year he added 21 inches of horn at age 6 - scored 201 inches and made the Boone and Crockett book.

A dead deer has never grown another single inch of horn
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:21 PM   #23
aggie2000tx
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If you are trying to manage a ranch to grow top end LF deer it is huge - shooting bucks before their prime (6-8 years old) is critical to the long term quality of deer you will grow -

I saw a 175 inch 9 point a few years ago. I knew he was only 5 years old. Hard to let him walk but I did. The next year he added 21 inches of horn at age 6 - scored 201 inches and made the Boone and Crockett book.

A dead deer has never grown another single inch of horn
Hunting sure has changed for a lot of people the last 20 years
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:44 PM   #24
Abcdj
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Just post a picture here and we theTBH Pro's will get it pretty close fer free!
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:47 PM   #25
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Take it to your local biologist they should be able to tell you for free
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:13 PM   #26
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Take it to your local biologist they should be able to tell you for free


According to this study a biologist canít tell with any accuracy after 3 years old


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Old 11-19-2019, 08:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by sweldo73 View Post
Actual scientific studies have been conducted that demonstrate the inaccuracy of the tooth replacement wear (TRW) and cementum annuli (CA) methods. As others have said, the TRW method is highly inaccurate the older they are. The CA method is more accurate, but only averages around 60% when attempting to determine exact year age.

Results of one study:

Attachment 980913
I have posted this info, sans the chart, several times but folks believe what they want to I guess. I read that several years ago in Deer and Deer Hunting mag I think.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:19 PM   #28
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Hunting sure has changed for a lot of people the last 20 years
Yes Sir you are correct - like it or not it has changed and will continue to change - not saying I like it but it is the natural progression of life

Last edited by Huntingfool; 11-19-2019 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:22 PM   #29
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According to this study a biologist canít tell with any accuracy after 3 years old


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There was another study done some years back. They took bucks of known ages and asked top end Biologist to age them by tooth wear. Results were they were not even close on most estimates (under 50% accuracy if I remember correctly).

Part of what has changed is protein - it does not wear teeth down anywhere near how natural browse wears them down.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:46 PM   #30
sotx
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Part of what has changed is protein - it does not wear teeth down anywhere near how natural browse wears them down.

This is the reason I use CA. Every year I send in the teeth and I always get the same answer that I come up with from my field judging and notes and photos from previous years.




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