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Old 06-08-2018, 09:38 AM   #51
bowhntrmatt
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Originally Posted by elliscountyhog View Post
Hmm I agree with most of this extcept the Trane comment. I sell all major brands and get good pricing from them all too. Now if you are talking basic models then yes all the same. But when talking higher seer and modulating/variable speed units Trane has the one of the best if not the best units. Lennox is close and the rest are not even considered. Heck Goodman doesn’t even offer one. They use a 3rd party line in Franklin. So if you want lower end builders grade then yes Goodman is spitting them out but that’s not our market. Dakien is making a come back for sure but still not near the proven years as Trane. I have not had a single unit come out from the warehouse with a “defect”. Plastic weather guard tops reduce vibration of the fan motor so it’s quieter. Just a heckuva a statement saying they are the worse in the market but yet they have been our go to brand for 15yrs and I would sell something else before I delt with defects and plastic crappy units and that’s not the case here.
I should have mentioned that I would favor daikin and amana over Goodman due to how flimsy Goodman cabinet strength is.

How many new trane air handlers do you see with the door seams taped up because the positive-pressure air handler blows air out of every seam and the doors won’t stay tight enough to keep it in?

And daikin was the first to use the variable speed compressor over 30 years ago. I would hardly say they are catching up.
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:15 AM   #52
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For you folks that install Trane units, have y'all had trouble with leaking coils?

As I mentioned above, I'm on my 5th. coil in 9 years. One only lasted two months.

The company that installed mine quit recommending or selling Trane about 3 years ago. The technicians told me they had many units with coil leaks and got tired of dealing with unhappy customers. They now sell Daikin.
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Old 06-08-2018, 02:55 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by bowhntrmatt View Post
I should have mentioned that I would favor daikin and amana over Goodman due to how flimsy Goodman cabinet strength is.

How many new trane air handlers do you see with the door seams taped up because the positive-pressure air handler blows air out of every seam and the doors won’t stay tight enough to keep it in?

And daikin was the first to use the variable speed compressor over 30 years ago. I would hardly say they are catching up.
Agreed! They are "catching up" by trying to expand and bring equipment that is "new" to the stagnant US market maybe?
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:27 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by tigerscowboy View Post
Going with Mercedes in the debate makes an easy story to shoot holes in. Everyone knows they are as expensive to own as a Jaguar or BMW.

Suggest a debate comparison like that of a Ford/Chevy/Dodge to Toyota/Honda. There lies a true argument similar to that of Trane/Daikin vs Rheem/York/Goodman/Am Std, ect
Not really sure why you threw AmStd and Trane on different sides of that argument.

American Standard is what I would buy if I was putting a new system in. Trane/American Standard are all made in the same plants and are owned by Ingersol Rand. American Standard's distributors have the BEST customer service and support in the industry.

And, to the person with 5 leaking coils in 9 years...something else is going on. That shouldn't be happening.
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Old 06-08-2018, 04:02 PM   #55
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We had Trane and it ran good until it didn't. Replaced a coil last year and the second system ran into the same issues 3 weeks before our buyers closed on our house. Set me back $1,100 because when we called in the serial numbers for the units being new homeowners we didn't know that you have to give them the serial numbers for BOTH units otherwise only one is covered for 10 years and the other is only covered for 5 years! This is important to know and from what I was also told, Trane is aware that this happens often, and they bank on it so that they only have to warranty about half of their failed coils. Don't get me wrong I like Trane but I think their little business model is total BS.
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:09 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by SFAbowhunter View Post
Not really sure why you threw AmStd and Trane on different sides of that argument.

American Standard is what I would buy if I was putting a new system in. Trane/American Standard are all made in the same plants and are owned by Ingersol Rand. American Standard's distributors have the BEST customer service and support in the industry.

And, to the person with 5 leaking coils in 9 years...something else is going on. That shouldn't be happening.
I agree. It shouldn't be happening. The technicians told me that the coils are made so thin that it only takes a little bit of corrosion for them to start leaking. Trane told me it could be caused by the environment.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:19 AM   #57
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Not really sure why you threw AmStd and Trane on different sides of that argument.

American Standard is what I would buy if I was putting a new system in. Trane/American Standard are all made in the same plants and are owned by Ingersol Rand. American Standard's distributors have the BEST customer service and support in the industry.

And, to the person with 5 leaking coils in 9 years...something else is going on. That shouldn't be happening.
On different sides because it was correlating debates such as when people want to compare items such as Toyota and Lexus, Nissan and Infinity, GM and Cadillac.

I've been to numerous manufacturing plants as well and witnessed different brands coming off the same lines built by the same workers with identical or similar components.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:31 PM   #58
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So nobody said what brand NOT to get....well, that'd be Frigidaire. This piece of junk has been worked on at least every other year since it was about 3 years old. It is now almost 10 years since we built our house, and I'm reading this thread to decide what new AC to get.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:15 PM   #59
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Trane, too many coil leaks. I wouldn't go with trane for residential. For small chillers, trane or carrier, large chillers, trane.


The big problem with coils is, efficiency and economy. Coils are made with thin copper for efficiency, and copper sells by weight, so we get paper thin coils, which have very little resistance to formicary corrosion. Thicker copper seems to be immune, or it just takes 20 yrs to eat through. So some of the 9 coil issue above could very well be environmental. A few years ago, every manufacturer had coil problems. Some have went to total aluminum to combat this.


I like lennox and lennox spin off products, mostly Air Ease splits, and Allied rooftop units. But what do I know, only been doing this for 44 years.
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:04 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by double bogey View Post
Trane, too many coil leaks. I wouldn't go with trane for residential. For small chillers, trane or carrier, large chillers, trane.


The big problem with coils is, efficiency and economy. Coils are made with thin copper for efficiency, and copper sells by weight, so we get paper thin coils, which have very little resistance to formicary corrosion. Thicker copper seems to be immune, or it just takes 20 yrs to eat through. So some of the 9 coil issue above could very well be environmental. A few years ago, every manufacturer had coil problems. Some have went to total aluminum to combat this.


I like lennox and lennox spin off products, mostly Air Ease splits, and Allied rooftop units. But what do I know, only been doing this for 44 years.
I have a High end RUUD system that I installed in 2012 that both the coils have gone out in. It was originally Copper / Aluminum coils and the replacement coils have been all Aluminum coils (which I hope hold up) both were under warranty however you have to pay for install and Freon ($900 for first one, $1400 for second one). Aside from this coil issue they have worked very well. My issues is that I mean come on, how long has these companies been making coils, by now these things should not fail, if it cost a lot to make one thick enough and well built enough to hold up for 20 years then so be it, charge me for that coil. Every metallurgist know dissimilar metals sets up corrosion so in my RUUD unit there should never have been a copper and aluminum(fins) coils.

One thing I do know is the outside condenser on these high end units must be kept clean. You need a low pressure power washer and clean them out. Last week my service guy replaced the coil and then cleaned my condensers very good. I hope this is the end of my issue with this RUUD system.

My service guys has been a friend for years so he shoots straight with me.

RD

Last edited by ranchdog; 06-19-2018 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:06 PM   #61
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The corrosion problem is formicary corrosion.

https://www.corrosionpedia.com/defin...cary-corrosion

Aluminum may be the answer, time will tell

Last edited by double bogey; 06-19-2018 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:14 PM   #62
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Some mfgs are using all aluminum micro channel coils. Don't let them get so dirty a spray nozzle on a hose won't work.
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Old 06-19-2018, 09:46 PM   #63
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The lighter weight coils has a lot to do with pleasing our governments higher efficiency requirements regulated to the manufacturers
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:02 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by double bogey View Post
The corrosion problem is formicary corrosion.

https://www.corrosionpedia.com/defin...cary-corrosion

Aluminum may be the answer, time will tell
Good information.

"Formicary" corrosion is the term the techs used when they replaced my coil recently. This time they put in a Sustainable Coil made in Lindale, TX. It came with a 5 year guarantee instead of Trane's 1 year.

double bogey. Just wondering if you think these coils will last. From their website.

"All RCTWE replacement coils utilize UNIGUARD® by Luvata copper alloy tubing for proven protection against formicary corrosion, the leading cause of coil leaks in copper tube applications. As an added feature, we also utilize aluminum end plates to further reduce rust corrosion."

http://www.sustainablecoils.com/tran...ent-coils.html
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:13 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Froggy View Post
Good information.

"Formicary" corrosion is the term the techs used when they replaced my coil recently. This time they put in a Sustainable Coil made in Lindale, TX. It came with a 5 year guarantee instead of Trane's 1 year.

double bogey. Just wondering if you think these coils will last. From their website.

"All RCTWE replacement coils utilize UNIGUARD® by Luvata copper alloy tubing for proven protection against formicary corrosion, the leading cause of coil leaks in copper tube applications. As an added feature, we also utilize aluminum end plates to further reduce rust corrosion."

http://www.sustainablecoils.com/tran...ent-coils.html
Those guys make great direct-replacement coils. We use them all the time. Usually at a better price point than factory replacements to if the factory warranty has run out.
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:52 PM   #66
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Different copper alloy, time will tell. There are coatings some mfgs are using on commercial equipment.
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Old 06-20-2018, 07:31 AM   #67
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The trane I had only made it about 10 years and the coils were toast. It was cheaper to replace the unit since I new it wasn't going to make another 10 years. I had to replace a motor on year 7 also. I went with Rheem this time around without all the bells and whistles.
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Old 06-20-2018, 07:32 AM   #68
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"knew"
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:01 AM   #69
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Andrew, get chance at modern air solutions to get you a quote. Tell him I told you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:02 AM   #70
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My TRANE 3 1/2 is 30y old this year......only maint 2 inside house blower motors....2
caps outside...Prayers please
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:51 AM   #71
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I replaced a rheem from 1978 a couple of weeks back. the condenser coil was leaking on the bottom row, all the way around where it rubbed on the bottom of the unit. Evaporator coil was not leaking. At one time rheem was pretty good equipment. Customer loves his new 2 stage 16 seer system.
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Old 06-23-2018, 01:19 PM   #72
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Some mfgs are using all aluminum micro channel coils. Don't let them get so dirty a spray nozzle on a hose won't work.
Absolutely a great habit. I finally developed the habit of rinsing the coils every time I changed the media filters, 2 times/year. That's when I got 16 years out of 2 undersized production grade RHEEM units.
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