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Old 02-14-2018, 08:59 AM   #151
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Question for some of you guys: If LE was there and did nothing and we had 20 laying dead now would you be happy with the results? What should they have done. Your opinions?
I'll play. What if LE wasn't there, and there was no shooting? Considering there are multiple meetings every year, and nothing like this has ever happened, is my statement really that unbelievable?
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:21 AM   #152
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Not being there is not an option for LE. If that was the case LE would only goto the situations they wanted to. LE had intel that violence was going to take place both from internal and external sources. This is something I do know first hand. Multiple agencies and multiple CIs. The option of putting them on an island and letting them have a cage fight is not an option for LE. I do agree there are multiple meetings every year all over Texas. LE is aware and monitor. This meeting required a high visibility large LE response because of acquired intel.

Last edited by glen; 02-14-2018 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:38 AM   #153
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There is always rumors about conflict when rival clubs are going to gather. Nothing new there. Neither club wants to light the fuse, especially in public. What made this different depends on who's telling the story.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:05 AM   #154
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The the Police did exactly what you and I pay them to do. Tell obvious and known criminal element to move on down the road or face the consequences.
I know people on 2 sides.

And I completely agree with this. As long as it applies to all situations.

The Baltimore riots happened in early May 2015. The Waco shootout happened May 17th 2015. Was there no intel that there was going to be violence in Baltimore? Not really surprised, but the publics (and LEOs) response to both events is pretty different, and telling.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:20 AM   #155
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I know people on 2 sides.

And I completely agree with this. As long as it applies to all situations.

The Baltimore riots happened in early May 2015. The Waco shootout happened May 17th 2015. Was there no intel that there was going to be violence in Baltimore? Not really surprised, but the publics (and LEOs) response to both events is pretty different, and telling.
i dont think comparing the LE response in (Red) Texas to the LE response in (Blue) Maryland is helping any arguments.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:24 AM   #156
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I've got a question. What do motorcycle clubs do? I'm guessing they get together to ride but what else? What were these guys fighting about to begin with? We they just fighting because they were in different clubs and that's what they do or was it something else?
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:30 AM   #157
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Clubs......Gangs..... Both were present.

Clubs do cool things to help others and make themselves look good.

Gangs call themselves "Clubs" do cool things to help others and make themselves look good and to blur the lines of their criminal activities .

LOL
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:31 AM   #158
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I'll play. What if LE wasn't there, and there was no shooting? Considering there are multiple meetings every year, and nothing like this has ever happened, is my statement really that unbelievable?
So If there was not any bikers at the Sight that Day would LE Have Shot Radom People out and About for a Normal Lunch Day outing
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:37 AM   #159
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So If there was not any bikers at the Sight that Day would LE Have Shot Radom People out and About for a Normal Lunch Day outing
Now that was weak attempt at.........I'm sure what, but it was weak nonetheless.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:18 AM   #160
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No word on my hundy yet....
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:24 AM   #161
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Some of the things not everyone knows. Cossacks and Banditos had several conflicts leading up to this and “club members” took chains and beat a different “club’s member” for wearing a Texas rocker on their jacket- one of these incidents occurred in Lorena a few weeks before this happened. Cossacks showed up in force that day next door to Bandito’s home base. This was never going to a Sunday of breaking bread
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:28 AM   #162
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No word on my hundy yet....
No sir once its all over and the police are cleared of not shooting anyone with their AR15 from a sniper position (ie roof top ) I will hand you that Hundy.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:36 AM   #163
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The Cossacks and the Banditos have been around each other for years. At almost all of the Biker Rallies all over Texas and their has not been a war/ all out shoot out at any of them. Why did it happen in Waco? I see only one factor that lead to this cluster. A power happy DA.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:55 AM   #164
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No sir once its all over and the police are cleared of not shooting anyone with their AR15 from a sniper position (ie roof top ) I will hand you that Hundy.
Its gonna be a long wait
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:17 PM   #165
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DA does not decide what LE does on scene. And not sure why anyone would deny that LE used deadly force. I wasn’t there but will say if I would have been dispatched there I would hAve done my job that day- if by horrible circumstances I had to use force up to and including g deadly force I would have done my job. I’m sure every cop that was there that day would have rather been somewhere else
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:31 PM   #166
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was this considered a “Confederation” meeting?

Are the Cossacks considered part of the “Confederation”?
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:35 PM   #167
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No sir once its all over and the police are cleared of not shooting anyone with their AR15 from a sniper position (ie roof top ) I will hand you that Hundy.
not sure why this is a hang up for some... the police have admitted to shooting people that day i dont think anyone is saying they didnt.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:37 PM   #168
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I wasn’t there but will say if I would have been dispatched there I would have done my job that day
I appreciate your service and the awful kind of positions that cops get put in, every day. It is not an easy job.

But doesn't your job entail putting the bad guys away for their crimes? That didnt really happen here, as the OP stated. The bad guys may even be getting paid off in this case. Arresting 177 people, giving them million dollar bails, letting the shot bleed out on the ground, it was a show of force on all sides.

Yes the bikers have a less than steller history, but so does the DA. I am kind of OK with 1% bikers not being stand up citizens, but not so much with DAs.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:46 PM   #169
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DA and cops are being lumped into one entity. Our job is simple- protect life- property- keep the peace. I can speak for most LE. I have risked my life for people with poor morals and ethics. I’ve tried saving the life of people that had committed a crime and ended up fatally injured. DA and local and state LE are different entities. I would imagine if all video was released you would see members of LE trying to provide life saving medical attention trying to wait until the scene was considered safe enough for EMS and Fire to enter. I’ve bern there- I not qualified or trained but did the best I could until the life savers were able to enter
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:08 PM   #170
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DA and cops are being lumped into one entity. Our job is simple- protect life- property- keep the peace. I can speak for most LE. I have risked my life for people with poor morals and ethics. I’ve tried saving the life of people that had committed a crime and ended up fatally injured. DA and local and state LE are different entities. I would imagine if all video was released you would see members of LE trying to provide life saving medical attention trying to wait until the scene was considered safe enough for EMS and Fire to enter. I’ve bern there- I not qualified or trained but did the best I could until the life savers were able to enter
The problem is that the DA inserted himself into the investigation. Overstepping his bounds for political gain. That backfired. Hope the state doesn’t pay for that moron’s action. Let Wakko pay for it. They elected him.
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:30 PM   #171
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Glen- Quackerbox I am as pro police as can be ask anyone who really knows me. I think you guys get paid way less then you should to put your life on the line everyday. I respect the law. Do some of the people involved in this mess need to be taken off the streets Hell Yes but when there is a unjustified shooting there need to be accountability. IMHO The city of Waco their Police and DA should own up to their mishandling of this whole deal. The only people who will pay will be the tax payers. Sad but true.
Keep your heads on a swivel and watch your 6 Tracker out.
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:49 PM   #172
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Glen- Quackerbox I am as pro police as can be ask anyone who really knows me. I think you guys get paid way less then you should to put your life on the line everyday. I respect the law. Do some of the people involved in this mess need to be taken off the streets Hell Yes but when there is a unjustified shooting there need to be accountability. IMHO The city of Waco their Police and DA should own up to their mishandling of this whole deal. The only people who will pay will be the tax payers. Sad but true.
Keep your heads on a swivel and watch your 6 Tracker out.

First, thank you. I can respect that. I can also agree with things were handled poorly. However, things were handled poorly on both sides of the fence. Its easy to arm chair quarterback them now that's its over and done with. I also believe the answers you seek will likely never be answered.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:18 PM   #173
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I appreciate it guys. Just realize the guys that are boots on the ground probably did the best they could. I know we had a large organized function involving plenty of motorcycles a few weeks later. I was walking up and down Congress Ave and knew I had a rifle on me most of the time. All of the main players were told if any threat was present it would be eliminated. Everyone there knew there were plenty of long guns up top and if someone pulled a weapon out I’d hope the guys up top made the threat disappear. I’m just a guy going to work that has a family to try and get back to
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:39 PM   #174
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Nobody will answer the Confederation questions?
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:47 PM   #175
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Nobody will answer the Confederation questions?
If you ask any Bandidos they will tell you no they are not.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:26 PM   #176
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My understanding is that Waco was the first or second COC meeting the Crossacks had ever attended. Generally the meetings have a small showing of bikers from each club, the Crossacks brought a very large contingent to Waco.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:43 PM   #177
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was this considered a “Confederation” meeting?

Are the Cossacks considered part of the “Confederation”?


Yes it was a "coc" meeting and no the Cossacks are not members, mostly due to the fact that they wear a 1% diamond and a Texas rocker and refuse to pay the bandits for permission to do so.
The coc in every state is mostly a front for the dominant 1% club in that area to extort money from the smaller clubs to be able to wear their city or state rocker and be able to ride unmolested


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Old 02-14-2018, 09:05 PM   #178
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So a “COC” is actually a means of financial extortion by these “upstanding clubs”??? Oh the horror! Tell me it ain’t so!
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Old 02-24-2018, 12:14 PM   #179
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DA does not decide what LE does on scene. And not sure why anyone would deny that LE used deadly force. I wasn’t there but will say if I would have been dispatched there I would hAve done my job that day- if by horrible circumstances I had to use force up to and including g deadly force I would have done my job. I’m sure every cop that was there that day would have rather been somewhere else
I understand what you are saying Glen. I lead soldiers into a lot of urban settings in Afghanistan where merge groups of people were mixed with potential bad actors intent on doing harm. What happened at Waco was my worst case scenario for each of those situations in Afghanistan. Putting a soldier in a position where they have to protect themselves and their buddies with a large group of civilians in the mix is a lose/lose situation.

I can tell you we backed out of several situations with the intent of simply defusing a potentially bad situation.

At the time there was a lot of discussion about the benefit and cost of doing so. I can tell you looking back and having delt with guys who had to shoot into crowds I'm glad I never had to give that order. The long term metal cost is substantial.



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Old 03-07-2018, 04:01 PM   #180
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New DA?
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:04 PM   #181
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Yes on the new DA, that’s what the radio reported this morning.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:13 PM   #182
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I sure took a beating on the previous threads for crying foul. I know alot of the bikers involved. It was a crap show from the get go. Several of the deceased had an LTC. They drew for fear of their life not knowing police were targeting them for drawing their weapon. It was chaos, utter chaos.

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I'm right there with ya'!
I know several that were there & called BS on this from the get-go & was burned by 99% of the people here. Everyone drew conclusions from the beginning that because they were bikers, they must be bad. It was pretty ridiculous how a lot of y'all acted.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:34 PM   #183
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Anybody know when the new DA will take office?

Once these trials commence will the defense be able to subpoena the old DA to testify?
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:54 PM   #184
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Anybody know when the new DA will take office?

Once these trials commence will the defense be able to subpoena the old DA to testify?
The terms of all the offices being elected this November begin January 1, 2019. I expect we'll see the current DA do very little to nothing with the Twin Peaks cases before then. They have made such a mess of things since this Fall that even the local criminal district judges in McClennan County, one of whom is Reyna's formal law partner, are giving him no slack.

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Old 03-07-2018, 08:56 PM   #185
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was this considered a “confederation” meeting?

Are the cossacks considered part of the “confederation”?
yes, it was a c.o.c colliation of clubs.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:08 PM   #186
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i dont think comparing the LE response in (Red) Texas to the LE response in (Blue) Maryland is helping any arguments.
Its a travesty that most of the bikers who've been let go had to sign "gag-orders" or face longer incarceration times. Most of these guys lives were ruined while awaiting a trial date that was never even set. Nobody has ever proved that any rounds were even fired other than by LEO's. Just another Government Turkey Shoot. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but this wreaks of BS.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:14 PM   #187
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Does Waco have a curse?

Seems like that town has more than its share of problems.
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:57 PM   #188
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https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...n-12717777.php


Is there any truth to this for those in the know?

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Old 03-08-2018, 12:37 AM   #189
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Wow, so no Banditos/Bad guys/criminals were even there?
Dang that sucks!!
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:08 AM   #190
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Does Waco have a curse?

Seems like that town has more than its share of problems.
They allow themselves to be manipulated by corrupted federal bureaucracies. Those bureaucracies probably helped set up the snipers nest from which most of the murders took place.
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:11 AM   #191
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https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...n-12717777.php


Is there any truth to this for those in the know?

Yeah. It’s true. Justin is sqeauling harder than the feller from deliverance. Took a plea bargain in an attempt to save himself from life but who knows. Trial thus far has been a tell all on his end lol. They also have recordings from one who wore a wire to get himself off the hook. The outcome of their trail is going to be an interesting one to say the least.
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Old 05-08-2018, 06:19 PM   #192
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/08...-shooting.html

Here's an update for those interested. 150 of 192 cases have been dismissed or refused so far. More are expected according to the article. Very telling of the corruption in Waco, etc.
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Old 05-10-2018, 08:18 AM   #193
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Once again. Now the rats are jumping ship and back tracking. Waco tax payers are going to get f^&*%^ because of a power hungry DA.
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Old 05-10-2018, 09:53 PM   #194
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I Hope every one of them walk and I hope Waco has to pay out lots of money to each one they arrested that day

Former DA needs to be prosecuted
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:39 AM   #195
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I still say this was all to make an example of them. That Waco doesn't put up with crap like what went down. Last time a building burnt down.
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:57 PM   #196
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Once again. Now the rats are jumping ship and back tracking. Waco tax payers are going to get f^&*%^ because of a power hungry DA.
I hope they do.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:16 PM   #197
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I will not be Waco taxpayers. sure if the amount is something that they can withstand but more than likely it will be every one of us paying taxes on this one that it will be coming from. I think they had some RICO type stuff so it could all be handled under the Federal dime.
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