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Old 09-18-2014, 11:00 PM   #101
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RLB. Here buddy I ran to CVS for ya.

Cuz you jus got, BURNED!!!!
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:03 PM   #102
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I understand that, and I wasn't trying to be objective....but theres a HUGE difference between then and now....technology, technolgy, technolgy. We have a very good understanding on where it is and have it down to a science on how to get it....and that only improves daily. We have rigs "SIGNED" on guaranteed contracts and new builds scheduled out for many many years. Speculation will never let the crash happen again....when it does turn it will be a slowing down and not a hault.

That was then.....
Lol......serious?
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:16 PM   #103
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I understand that, and I wasn't trying to be objective....but theres a HUGE difference between then and now....technology, technolgy, technolgy. We have a very good understanding on where it is and have it down to a science on how to get it....and that only improves daily. We have rigs "SIGNED" on guaranteed contracts and new builds scheduled out for many many years. Speculation will never let the crash happen again....when it does turn it will be a slowing down and not a hault.

That was then.....
You under estimate OPEC and politics, if they want to shut us down over here they can and will. They can flood the market with so much cheap crude we will have to shut down because it will not be worth pulling it up out of the ground let alone drilling...

Also we knew where the oil was back in the 70s and 80s as well so that is an invalid argument and the reason it crashed is same reason it will crash if it does again. Because of OPEC and politics.

And that is why this ole boy is getting a business degree and not a roughneck degree.
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:50 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by RLB View Post
I understand that, and I wasn't trying to be objective....but theres a HUGE difference between then and now....technology, technolgy, technolgy. We have a very good understanding on where it is and have it down to a science on how to get it....and that only improves daily. We have rigs "SIGNED" on guaranteed contracts and new builds scheduled out for many many years. Speculation will never let the crash happen again....when it does turn it will be a slowing down and not a hault.

That was then.....

Lol..... I'm buying this guys toys "when" not if the crash happens.
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Old 09-19-2014, 06:29 AM   #105
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FYI 85-90% of our oil is shipped overseas
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:14 AM   #106
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Perform a search online for Houston's Tent City in the 1980s. The pictures should speak for themselves?
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:15 AM   #107
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I'm new to the industry on the service side (bit and vibrator sales ). I'm here, in part, because the boom-to-bust scenario isn't exclusive to O&G. I endured both ups and downs in the trucking business, too. No matter the industry or job the OPs advice is solid. Jim Rohn used to say "If you inherit a million dollars, you best figure out how to become a millionaire so you can keep it." The same applies to somebody who suddenly comes into money, as many have in O&G. The evidence points to a boom-to-bust scenario - not just most of the time, but EVERY time so far. To think it won't happen again is na´ve, at best.

In addition to putting some $ away for when it happens, it's also a good idea to start working on a fallback plan. Fortunately, I still have the ability to continue developing other professional opportunities, such as TBH and TBH Creative Media. Learn and teach yourself new skills to diversify yourself personally, as well. Jim Rohn also said "Pity the man who inherits a million dollars and who isn't a millionaire. Here's what would be pitiful: If your income grew and you didn't."

Man, you financial planners have a golden opportunity (if not a tough sell) to help some of the folks in this industry!
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:29 AM   #108
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Just give me two good years to get ahead and figure out what I really want to do with my life lol. I don't foresee cheap oil any time soon with America's addiction to spending/debt along with reckless monetary policy, but who knows? Maybe all the production going on will finally catch up and a glut of supply will bring prices down.

So, if I do want to make a career in the oil patch, what are some jobs that'll be around regardless if prices fall?
Er doctor lol
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:30 AM   #109
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Trust me Micheal they're already hustling

I've just started with the bunch getting some Roth IRA's and making my 401's work more efficient, got alot too learn
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:42 AM   #110
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Yep. There's so many half a million dollar homes going up in Katy it's ridiculous. We got caught up in it and it took me a year to come to my senses. Now we're back in a modest house that we can pay off in less than 5 years with a much lower tax rate.

If you're in Katy and are interested, I'm facilitating a Dave Ramsey course for my church (The Commons) that starts next Tuesday. It will be every Tuesday for 9 weeks, meeting at 6:30pm.

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Old 09-19-2014, 08:04 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
The na´vetÚ of your remarks is both chilling and revealing. You obviously were not in the business when it was booming in the late 70's and went FLAT bust in 1982! It was devistating to those who thought the money would never stop rolling in (like you). As a banker who worked for awhile in the loan workout area of the largest bank in Texas at the time with a huge portfolio of drilling rig and other oilfield equipment loans. Companies went from people waiting in line at the Offshore Technology Conference to just order their equipment...to not being able to give it away! I could tell you some sad horror stories about visiting our borrowers
offices/plants/warehouses in Midland/Odessa/Houston and seeing ghost buildings! NOTHING was happening. This went from boom to bust in just weeks!


The OP has some excellent advice, and you young folks would be wise to take heed. I cringe every time I see someone selling some souped up AR 15, Leica binoculars or some other expensive toy because of some small financial hiccup. If you don't have money in the bank (or in investments with your Financial Advisor ), you probably can't afford those high priced luxury items if you have to sell them to raise money for your kid 's braces! Just because you have the cash to pay for them (let alone having to finance them) does not mean you can afford them. That cash might should be put back for making the mortgage or truck payment when that job goes away.

They call me Grumpy .. but I have witnessed it!

Randy I worked the East Texas oilfields around Tyler , Lufkin , Kilgore , Gilmer etc. You are absolutely right but the oilfield did linger on a bit longer for us in that region.

I remember getting paid to just sit and circulate in the hole because there was no drill pipe to be bought. It wasn't long before we were stacking the rig out in the snow.

I saw what was coming and took a job working for Abercrombie and Fitch sporting goods. We were still selling high end toys like Krieghoff Crown grade shotguns Purdy, Renato Gamba's, Colt Sauer, H&H etc. etc.

The next year we were buying back all those toys for 10 cents on the dollar. I still have a few of those items tucked away as well.

I went into the Army and some years later watched the very same boom or bust happen down in Pearsall and Dilley.

Those that believe it can't happen or wont happen need to understand the economics of the oil industry. All those perks and high wages come at a price and if that price drops below x-$$$$ those wells will be shut down and until they run prices and demand up to meet the end costs of production.
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:17 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
The na´vetÚ of your remarks is both chilling and revealing. You obviously were not in the business when it was booming in the late 70's and went FLAT bust in 1982! It was devistating to those who thought the money would never stop rolling in (like you). As a banker who worked for awhile in the loan workout area of the largest bank in Texas at the time with a huge portfolio of drilling rig and other oilfield equipment loans. Companies went from people waiting in line at the Offshore Technology Conference to just order their equipment...to not being able to give it away! I could tell you some sad horror stories about visiting our borrowers
offices/plants/warehouses in Midland/Odessa/Houston and seeing ghost buildings! NOTHING was happening. This went from boom to bust in just weeks!

The OP has some excellent advice, and you young folks would be wise to take heed. I cringe every time I see someone selling some souped up AR 15, Leica binoculars or some other expensive toy because of some small financial hiccup. If you don't have money in the bank (or in investments with your Financial Advisor ), you probably can't afford those high priced luxury items if you have to sell them to raise money for your kid 's braces! Just because you have the cash to pay for them (let alone having to finance them) does not mean you can afford them. That cash might should be put back for making the mortgage or truck payment when that job goes away.

They call me Grumpy .. but I have witnessed it!
Listen to the wise Owl........ (and the other "old" guys that have experienced the cycle)

I have tried to tell my friends and family that are younger than me to put some money away. One in the oil field, I got him to at least set up his Roth. Now is he continuing to fund it? Who knows.

I got another buddy who is making good money and got him motivated to fund his IRA and to put money away. Couple weeks ago when at the lease I talked with his fiancÚ about putting in the match for her 401k and starting to contribute to a Roth......

When you are young "Time" is your friend, if you start now. Later on "Time" will be your enemy.

Don't be a "Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda" in 5-10 years



Maybe I should start putting money aside in a separate fund to buy all of the toys from former Oilfield workers
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:47 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Man, you financial planners have a golden opportunity (if not a tough sell) to help some of the folks in this industry!

...if they will listen, but sadly, most will blow a lot of their good fortune to have what used to be known as luxuries, only to realize at age 56 that there is no way for them to retire with no retirement savings!

What were one luxury items for you people seem to be necessities nowadays.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:04 AM   #114
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I have been telling my wife when the bust hits I am going to fill my shop from floor to ceiling with Lincoln Welding Machines that I can buy for $700-800 from all the welders in the area that will go belly up.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:36 AM   #115
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Just let people enjoy the fruits of their labor, until the bust happens. Then the rest of us can enjoy the fruits of their labor.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:59 AM   #116
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If they stop drilling production/supply will come to a screeching hault...the front end "flush" production from these horizontal wells is what's pumping up the production numbers. Thus, any significant drop in oil prices will be transitory, IMO.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:59 AM   #117
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It can happen in a hurry. In July 2008 oil was at $145/bbl. By December 2008 it was under $34/bbl. A lot of good advice on here to save up for the downturn.
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Old 09-19-2014, 01:07 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLB View Post
Rig Contracts dont go out the window!! Those are iron clad guaranteed deals.....at $24-$28K per day for 24-48 months
LMAO!!! I want some of the stuff you be smoking...
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Old 09-19-2014, 03:51 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
The founder of our company, Edward Jones, used to say, "make hay while the sun is shining...but ALWAYS put some in the barn for rainy days."
Wise man

I retired when I was 50 but when I had my business I always put at least 10% away and never spent more than 10% on recreation or toys
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Old 09-19-2014, 06:57 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
...if they will listen, but sadly, most will blow a lot of their good fortune to have what used to be known as luxuries, only to realize at age 56 that there is no way for them to retire with no retirement savings!

What were one luxury items for you people seem to be necessities nowadays.
Oops! Typo. I did not mean to say, "you people". Meant to say, "what were were once luxury items for young people seem to be necessities nowadays".

Last edited by Burnadell; 09-19-2014 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:10 PM   #121
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LMAO!!! I want some of the stuff you be smoking...
That's why I make the big bucks son.....I get paid from the neck up!!

I never said not to save money, I never said it might not ever dry up.....I said it wasn't going to come to a screeching halt like it did in 1982....and unless you have a crystal ball, you're opinion is no different than mine.....an opinion.

Rig contractors got burned in the 80's.....not gonna happen again. Carry on.
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:30 PM   #122
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That's why I make the big bucks son.....I get paid from the neck up!!

I never said not to save money, I never said it might not ever dry up.....I said it wasn't going to come to a screeching halt like it did in 1982....and unless you have a crystal ball, you're opinion is no different than mine.....an opinion.

Rig contractors got burned in the 80's.....not gonna happen again. Carry on.
Every salesman says this. I think it's just a pitch you forgot wasn't real

Hope you're right for my all of our sake
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:44 PM   #123
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Every salesman says this. I think it's just a pitch you forgot wasn't real

Hope you're right for my all of our sake
Oh heck who knows.....we all may be doomed, but I tend to see the glass half full. But as you advised, I do have savings.....we live a VERY modest lifestyle. I've got two kids to go to Aggieland, that will be at least a 1/4 million each!!
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:58 PM   #124
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That's why I make the big bucks son.....I get paid from the neck up!!

I never said not to save money, I never said it might not ever dry up.....I said it wasn't going to come to a screeching halt like it did in 1982....and unless you have a crystal ball, you're opinion is no different than mine.....an opinion.

Rig contractors got burned in the 80's.....not gonna happen again. Carry on.
everyone got burned in 2009....Rig Contractors were not immune to this....Google "rig count by year US Land"......rig count dropped by 1000 rigs from 2008 to 2009....when the rig count drops all the people on those rigs are out of work or are moved out of the US by their companies if they are skilled enough....but the rigs that are on the ground and not working are NOT getting paid for....I know that you believe that this cannot happen again...I wish you were correct but it is just not the case....
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:21 PM   #125
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What I do is not DIRECTLY oil field but in the Houston area the majority of machining is for oil tools. When I first started in a machine shop in 1993 one of the first things the older guys told me was to make hay when the sun is shining because in this business the rain is ALWAYS coming. Heard many a story of the crash in '82. Had guys tell me they were working 16hr days 7 days a week then literally came in one day and got layed off. Never saw it coming. I have seen this in small degrees over the years, the most recent 2010 when some of our tools went down with the Deepwater Horizon. Millions of dollars worth of jobs literally in one day. They layed of 65% of the company. I was the only CNC Machinist left. It was scary but I would have been ok. I took the old guys words to heart nearly 20yrs ago and have lived with little debt. Im sure yall are tired of reading about it but I bought 10ac in 1999 and built a house with cash. Never have payed a penny on a mortgage. Land was payed off in 2009. Save money, pay off debt or you WILL regret it!
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:30 PM   #126
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everyone got burned in 2009....Rig Contractors were not immune to this....Google "rig count by year US Land"......rig count dropped by 1000 rigs from 2008 to 2009....when the rig count drops all the people on those rigs are out of work or are moved out of the US by their companies if they are skilled enough....but the rigs that are on the ground and not working are NOT getting paid for....I know that you believe that this cannot happen again...I wish you were correct but it is just not the case....
I can tell you for a fact there were rigs stacked in the grass that were being paid for. were all of them? I don't know.. but I could rattle off a dozen that were.. Just because it's stacked doesn't mean it's free.

you're right about the people that worked on them though. That was rough.. In the period of about 6 months, I saw 4 rounds of layoffs in the company I was working for. 1st one was a no brainer. 2nd one was easy. 3rd one stung, and the 4th one every person left in that office knew it could be them next.

Last edited by kyle1974; 09-19-2014 at 08:33 PM..
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Old 09-20-2014, 05:13 PM   #127
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That's why I make the big bucks son.....I get paid from the neck up!!

I never said not to save money, I never said it might not ever dry up.....I said it wasn't going to come to a screeching halt like it did in 1982....and unless you have a crystal ball, you're opinion is no different than mine.....an opinion.

Rig contractors got burned in the 80's.....not gonna happen again. Carry on.
Ok.
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Old 09-20-2014, 06:08 PM   #128
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Anyone that doesnt think their company can crash or the boom can end overnight is living in a fantasy land. It can come to a screeching halt with a quickness. Enron almost killed me, had it not been for a little nest egg i would have lost it all.
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Old 09-20-2014, 06:29 PM   #129
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Anyone that doesnt think their company can crash or the boom can end overnight is living in a fantasy land. It can come to a screeching halt with a quickness. Enron almost killed me, had it not been for a little nest egg i would have lost it all.
Sorry to hear that. I wasnt involved but it still makes me want to puke when I think about what you folks lost.
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Old 11-28-2014, 12:57 PM   #130
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Bump...
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:10 PM   #131
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Default Hey Oilfield Guys!!

I work for one of the largest oil/gas companies in the US. We are already going through reorganizing, aka early retirements and job reduction. It's already started for some producers/sellers. It'll trickle down soon. The company is trying to head it off at the pass, but reduction in job force is the first step, if prices keep falling then layoffs will be next.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:13 PM   #132
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I work for one of the largest oil/gas companies in the US. We are already going through reorganizing, aka early retirements and job reduction. It's already started for some producers/sellers. It'll trickle down soon. The company is trying to head it off at the pass, but reduction in job force is the first step, if prices keep falling then layoffs will be next.
Yep it's coming. It may not be massive layoffs but changes are coming all around
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:40 PM   #133
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Dad and I were just talking about all the one year old diesels with low miles that will be owned by the banks soon.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:55 PM   #134
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Default Hey Oilfield Guys!!

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Dad and I were just talking about all the one year old diesels with low miles that will be owned by the banks soon.

It'll be a great opportunity for us savers to upgrade the ol' truck.




Ah, who am I kidding. I'll stick with my 10 year old beater.
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Old 11-28-2014, 04:34 PM   #135
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Dad and I were just talking about all the one year old diesels with low miles that will be owned by the banks soon.
Yea except for the lift kits, oversize tires, glass packs and programmers they put on them
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Old 11-28-2014, 04:38 PM   #136
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Dad and I were just talking about all the one year old diesels with low miles that will be owned by the banks soon.
I've been wanting another diesel.
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:26 PM   #137
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Yea except for the lift kits, oversize tires, glass packs and programmers they put on them

Was with you until you said glass packs.
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:29 PM   #138
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Lol well some like too hear the tires whine, some gotta drown out the whiners
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:47 AM   #139
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Went through the busts in the 70s and 80s you could go up in the derrick and all you could see were drilling rigs. in 85 you lucky to see one. Most banks were the biggest car lots around.
In 1984 4,600ndrilling rigs looking for oil. in 1986 600 rigs looking for oil. if you went to a bank or went to buy a car and you told them you worked in the oil industry No money was loaned To you guys under the age of 40, it can get bad. Okla, Texas, La was in a depression. I hope I never see that again
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:56 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by RLB View Post
Rig Contracts dont go out the window!! Those are iron clad guaranteed deals.....at $24-$28K per day for 24-48 months
I see contracts go out the window a lot.. Nothing is set in stone..
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:57 AM   #141
kyle1974
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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
...if they will listen, but sadly, most will blow a lot of their good fortune to have what used to be known as luxuries, only to realize at age 56 that there is no way for them to retire with no retirement savings!

What were one luxury items for you people seem to be necessities nowadays.
this is a major problem in our country. just watching the black friday hysteria shows where we place "junk" as a top priority in this country.
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:59 AM   #142
deer farmer
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I understand that, and I wasn't trying to be objective....but theres a HUGE difference between then and now....technology, technolgy, technolgy. We have a very good understanding on where it is and have it down to a science on how to get it....and that only improves daily. We have rigs "SIGNED" on guaranteed contracts and new builds scheduled out for many many years. Speculation will never let the crash happen again....when it does turn it will be a slowing down and not a hault.

That was then.....
HAhaha, contracts in the drilling side mean little when a crash happens. contracts are not honored and then it's, U can't get blood out of a turnip when it come to collecting what is owed.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:16 AM   #143
Pedernal
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Hopefully people have learned from the past and are saving some of the money that they are earning. A major shot down hurts all of Texas not just oil field workers.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:24 AM   #144
rubydog
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Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
I work for one of the largest oil/gas companies in the US. We are already going through reorganizing, aka early retirements and job reduction. It's already started for some producers/sellers. It'll trickle down soon. The company is trying to head it off at the pass, but reduction in job force is the first step, if prices keep falling then layoffs will be next.
I know some of the big time players for some major companies that share tidbits with me. I tried to tell some of these hands around here in the Eagle Ford to get ready for the slack times. The replies I got were this will never go away and we have 10 more years easy.

I see some of those hands have done been bucked off that horse and looking for a new ride..
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:25 AM   #145
kgrutzmacher
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I'm just looking for the right time to buy back in. The oil industry has always been cyclical - you just have to understand that and prepare...
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Old 11-29-2014, 12:23 PM   #146
doppelganger
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Originally Posted by kgrutzmacher View Post
I'm just looking for the right time to buy back in. The oil industry has always been cyclical - you just have to understand that and prepare...

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered, just don't be a hog.

Believe me, I'm just waiting to start dumping more into company stock. Odd, I saw an investor analyst and he was predicting my company to have a 20% gain this year. Not sure about that, as we are extended in some cost overruns on some multibillion dollar projects overseas.

Hopefully those projects start producing this year and next. People have no clue how much r/d and exploration o/g companies invest, but all you hear are the greenies complaining about oil.

Last edited by doppelganger; 11-29-2014 at 12:47 PM..
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:32 PM   #147
Porterhouse
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Default Hey Oilfield Guys!!

Where did RLB go? West Texas crude enjoyed a 10% drop on Friday and I need Mr. Big Bucks to tell me how that's going to impact my mailbox money. Hoping his iron clad contracts mean that my royalties go unchanged.

More importantly, considering that I am in the mortgage business, I need him to tell me how long the soundness of his rig contracts will stall an increase in foreclosures.

Even more importantly, I want him to post again so Burnadell can say something else.

Last edited by Porterhouse; 11-29-2014 at 08:42 PM..
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:46 PM   #148
asttbe
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I see contracts get axed during boom times. Don't think for a second they won't during a bust
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:50 PM   #149
miket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porterhouse View Post
Where did RLB go? West Texas crude enjoyed a 10% drop on Friday and I need Mr. Big Bucks to tell me how that's going to impact my mailbox money. Hoping his iron clad contracts mean that my royalties go unchanged.

More importantly, considering that I am in the mortgage business, I need him to tell me how long the soundness of his rig contracts will stall an increase in foreclosures.

Even more importantly, I want him to post again so Burnadell can say something else.
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:54 PM   #150
M16
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Originally Posted by asttbe View Post
I see contracts get axed during boom times. Don't think for a second they won't during a bust
I know a guy who makes the big bucks cause they pay him from the neck up that says you wrong!
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