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    #16
    Originally posted by Shane View Post
    I hear what you're saying, but it brings up questions in my mind.... So, do we want to increase the government's ability to commit people to mental hospitals for life rather than simply take guns away from people with a history of mental illness? Can we not think of the same kinds of hypothetical scenarios about liberal judges, sheriffs, etc. abusing that power too? What if someone that hates you files a report about how you're mentally instable and all the liberals in control of the situation decide that your affection for guns means that you are mentally instable and potentially dangerous, and since they can't take your guns away they'll just send you away to a mental institution for the rest of your life instead? If you were the victim of such abuse, would you rather live out your remaining days in a medicated fog inside a mental institution or live in your home without guns? If we're going to discuss worst case scenario what-ifs and use those as our justifications about where we come down on these issues, shouldn't we look at all of them, rather than just one?

    It sounds to me like this case in Florida is using due process. It sounds to me like the end result was very positive as well. I'm as pro-2nd Amendment as you can imagine. I have zero issue with insane people like this guy in Florida not being allowed to own, purchase, or possess firearms. We've been arguing all along that it isn't a gun control issue, it's a mental health issue. That's true. Mentally ill people should be in treatment and under supervision, especially when they are potentially violent. They shouldn't be allowed to have guns either. Ever - regardless of where they live. At the same time, there should be lots of checks and balances in the system to ensure that anyone who ends up on the mental illness "list" gets a fair opportunity to dispute it. And if anyone is later found to not be mentally ill, then their name should be cleared. And, yes, I can think of ways that system could still fail in isolated cases here and there. We can't come up with anything that won't have potential holes in it. I think we need to be looking for a system that has the least amount of holes in it, not the non-existent "perfect" one.
    2 points.

    First, it should never be the determination of a govt entity to diagnose mental illness. No judge, no jury, no LE no one except a qualified Mental Health Practitioner and in the case of the govt it should be a third party Practitioner with no ties to the situation since the govt is the last entity we want making these decisions.

    Next, lets define "mentally ill". PTSD? Depression? Anxiety? That list will include me and god knows how many other veterans as well as millions of other good people that would never hurt a fly except in the defense of self and others. Good luck disarming the veterans. That will go splendidly for you let me tell ya!

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      #17
      Originally posted by J Sweet View Post
      2 points.

      First, it should never be the determination of a govt entity to diagnose mental illness. No judge, no jury, no LE no one except a qualified Mental Health Practitioner and in the case of the govt it should be a third party Practitioner with no ties to the situation since the govt is the last entity we want making these decisions.

      Next, lets define "mentally ill". PTSD? Depression? Anxiety? That list will include me and god knows how many other veterans as well as millions of other good people that would never hurt a fly except in the defense of self and others. Good luck disarming the veterans. That will go splendidly for you let me tell ya!
      Obesity is defined as a mental illness...Just to help prove your point.

      What I find more disturbing is our law makers are rushing to pass a bill in an attempt to keep egg off their face. None of them are really looking at the root cause of why the FBI, Boward county Sheriff and now school counselors failed to take action with this kid when they had multiple opportunities to do so.

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        #18
        He is a good idea
        Everyone, including felons and mentally disturbed who are legal American citizens should be allowed to constitution carry at all times and places.
        No gun restrictions on anyone for Any reason

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          #19
          Originally posted by J Sweet View Post
          2 points.

          First, it should never be the determination of a govt entity to diagnose mental illness. No judge, no jury, no LE no one except a qualified Mental Health Practitioner and in the case of the govt it should be a third party Practitioner with no ties to the situation since the govt is the last entity we want making these decisions.

          Next, lets define "mentally ill". PTSD? Depression? Anxiety? That list will include me and god knows how many other veterans as well as millions of other good people that would never hurt a fly except in the defense of self and others. Good luck disarming the veterans. That will go splendidly for you let me tell ya!
          I agree^

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by sierracharlie338 View Post
            The problem that no one in this thread has mentioned is that our mental health care system is broken. Legitimately crazy people get sent to Rusk or any state facility and unless they lose their **** while there, they are released with more medication ( which may or may not affect them positively) in sometimes as short as a few days. What good does it do to take someone’s guns, send them to the looney bin, then give them back soon as they get out? Are they really better or just medicated?

            There are a lot of people casting stones here about things they know little to nothing about, hence the reason I won’t provide an opinion on the OP.


            Sierracharlie out…
            Yep. We need to get mental hospitals going the way they used to run again for sure. A month in and then release with drugs is not working for a lot of seriously mentally ill people.

            The way I understand the new Florida law is that it would prevent the person in your scenario from owning firearms again, even after release from the mental hospital or treatment facility.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by J Sweet View Post
              2 points.

              First, it should never be the determination of a govt entity to diagnose mental illness. No judge, no jury, no LE no one except a qualified Mental Health Practitioner and in the case of the govt it should be a third party Practitioner with no ties to the situation since the govt is the last entity we want making these decisions.

              That^^^^ does not exist now. The person in question will be taken to the relevant professionals for this determination.

              Next, lets define "mentally ill". PTSD? Depression? Anxiety? That list will include me and god knows how many other veterans as well as millions of other good people that would never hurt a fly except in the defense of self and others. Good luck disarming the veterans. That will go splendidly for you let me tell ya!
              Are they not mental illnesses? There are varying degrees of each on your list.
              The worst cases are quite evident when you go to their house at 2 am and they are wanting to kill you and those around you who are trying to help. Again, a professional will make the determination

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by flywise View Post
                Are they not mental illnesses? There are varying degrees of each on your list.
                The worst cases are quite evident when you go to their house at 2 am and they are wanting to kill you and those around you who are trying to help. Again, a professional will make the determination
                In your example they are committing a crime. Im talking about someone who has not commited a single crime. In the statute FL placed there is no differentiation between a criminal and a law abiding citizen. The police are already allowed to seize firearms if they are used in a crime.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by J Sweet View Post
                  In your example they are committing a crime. Im talking about someone who has not commited a single crime. In the statute FL placed there is no differentiation between a criminal and a law abiding citizen. The police are already allowed to seize firearms if they are used in a crime.
                  No, I am not describing a crime. Im talking about people who are in the midst of a mental breakdown who want to kill themselves or those around them.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by flywise View Post
                    No, I am not describing a crime. Im talking about people who are in the midst of a mental breakdown who want to kill themselves or those around them.
                    Suicide is a crime. Its in the books.


                    Look brother, you and me agree on about 99 percent of stuff but this one aint gonna be it lol. Who will watch the watcher?

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Shane View Post
                      Yep. We need to get mental hospitals going the way they used to run again for sure. A month in and then release with drugs is not working for a lot of seriously mentally ill people.
                      That would be the right direction but back in the 1980's nearly all funding was stripped from mental facilities. I sold pharmaceuticals in that market for about 11 years.........always had increasing sales.........those sales are still increasing today! The out-patient model implemented way back then is now part of the real world issue we are all living thru.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by J Sweet View Post
                        Suicide is a crime. Its in the books.


                        Look brother, you and me agree on about 99 percent of stuff but this one aint gonna be it lol. Who will watch the watcher?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Here's the problem with the mental health track. It is/will be ran by the same bureaucrats that have proven time and time again to be incompetent, untrustworthy and abusive.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Anybody that hunts defenseless animals is mentally ill....................sound familiar?


                            DJ

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Charles View Post
                              Obesity is defined as a mental illness...Just to help prove your point.

                              .
                              #fakenews

                              You need to show your work on this one

                              Please show us where in the DSM it says this

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Would there be ANY scenario that would justify confiscating guns from an individual?
                                (Other than committing a crime)

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