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Old 11-16-2014, 07:17 PM   #151
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For the first time in my life I'm glad I'm not a long draw !
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Old 11-16-2014, 08:02 PM   #152
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For the first time in my life I'm glad I'm not a long draw !
Haha me to
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Old 11-16-2014, 08:04 PM   #153
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To see the foc my wife is getting with a 26" arrow is amazing
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Old 11-16-2014, 08:32 PM   #154
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Ok I just got in from hunting. I open the ontarget program. All I put in is the Moxie bow at 68 lb. 32 in draw and Beamon ics speed arrow. With a 125 tip

I know there other inputs but I would think this is close. If what I have put in is correct

It shows to be .063 weak from a 340 spine. A 300 spine it still shows this to be .023 weak. So program is showing optimal spine is .2772. That is with a 125 gn head and 22 gn insert. Changing to a 50 gn insert it shows a .2682 spine

This is the program in hunting filter.

You can always make a weak arrow shoot. I'm not saying Brian is wrong. Maybe I'm doing the program wrong.

It's just a little more info before you spend your money
I'm just testing these out.
Looking at getting some Black Eagle Rampages in 250 spine
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Old 11-16-2014, 08:45 PM   #155
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I'm just testing these out.
Looking at getting some Black Eagle Rampages in 250 spine
That looks like that all to be a tough arrow
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:00 PM   #156
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Yes sir. I trying to figure out what/if there's a difference between the Rampage & Rampage LD.
Do they take the Gold Tip scree in weights.

I was reading something somewhere about Barrell shaped arrows. I didn't bookmark it, nor do I remember where it was.

I just needed something to give my mind a break from the quest from my perfect arrow.

I'll pickup my quest after Christmas our later.
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:10 PM   #157
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Yes sir. I trying to figure out what/if there's a difference between the Rampage & Rampage LD.
Do they take the Gold Tip scree in weights.

I was reading something somewhere about Barrell shaped arrows. I didn't bookmark it, nor do I remember where it was.

I just needed something to give my mind a break from the quest from my perfect arrow.

I'll pickup my quest after Christmas our later.
I understand the after Christmas. I'm broke. Need some more play money. And I thinking about a new bow to. Need to win the lotery or a rich relative to leave me money. I got a better chance of winning the lotery and I don't play
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:26 PM   #158
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I understand the after Christmas. I'm broke. Need some more play money. And I thinking about a new bow to. Need to win the lotery or a rich relative to leave me money. I got a better chance of winning the lotery and I don't play
I need to as well :-)
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Old 11-17-2014, 11:09 AM   #159
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I'm just testing these out.
Looking at getting some Black Eagle Rampages in 250 spine
I'll let you know how these work out. I seem to recall that your draw weight is slightly less so you may be able to put more weight up front.

With the carbon-to-carbon measurement at 31.25", with a 100 grain brass insert and wearing a 100-grain point, my FOC should be in the neighborhood of 17-18% and the arrow, by the calculator, should be a little overspined.

If I need it, I can go up to a 175 grain point and not be underspined and push the FOC up around 20%.

My new "light" arrow configuration is going to be 550 grains. I'll see if I can fit a second sight tape on my slider to switch back and forth between FOC and whitetail arrows.

Last edited by JimboBurnsy; 11-17-2014 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 11-17-2014, 12:14 PM   #160
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I'll let you know how these work out. I seem to recall that your draw weight is slightly less so you may be able to put more weight up front.

With the carbon-to-carbon measurement at 31.25", with a 100 grain brass insert and wearing a 100-grain point, my FOC should be in the neighborhood of 17-18% and the arrow, by the calculator, should be a little overspined.

If I need it, I can go up to a 175 grain point and not be underspined and push the FOC up around 20%.

My new "light" arrow configuration is going to be 550 grains. I'll see if I can fit a second sight tape on my slider to switch back and forth between FOC and whitetail arrows.

That would be awesome!

Wouldn't 2 sight tapes be confusing?


I found Saturday after I bought those arrows my bow has the 31" modules. I thought it had the 32" modules.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:22 PM   #161
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I'll let you know how these work out. I seem to recall that your draw weight is slightly less so you may be able to put more weight up front.

With the carbon-to-carbon measurement at 31.25", with a 100 grain brass insert and wearing a 100-grain point, my FOC should be in the neighborhood of 17-18% and the arrow, by the calculator, should be a little overspined.

If I need it, I can go up to a 175 grain point and not be underspined and push the FOC up around 20%.

My new "light" arrow configuration is going to be 550 grains. I'll see if I can fit a second sight tape on my slider to switch back and forth between FOC and whitetail arrows.
Let me know if you get the 2 sight tapes to work out, I was thinking about doing something similar. I was just going to put marks on my sight tape for the whitetail arrows.

What kind of slider do you have? I have the MBG pure driven.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:38 PM   #162
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Let me know if you get the 2 sight tapes to work out, I was thinking about doing something similar. I was just going to put marks on my sight tape for the whitetail arrows.

What kind of slider do you have? I have the MBG pure driven.
MBG Ascent Ambush. I played around with SFA a bit at lunch and I'm not sure how well that's going to work. Marking your tape may be more practical, precise and a much better use of time.
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Old 11-17-2014, 08:41 PM   #163
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MBG Ascent Ambush. I played around with SFA a bit at lunch and I'm not sure how well that's going to work. Marking your tape may be more practical, precise and a much better use of time.
I thought so as well, but I didn't know if you came up with something I didn't come up with
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:29 PM   #164
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I thought so as well, but I didn't know if you came up with something I didn't come up with

That's what Photoshop is for Print the tape to an image. Then edit in Photoshop and add a diff color marks or whatever. I scan the packages sight tapes, then use them as templates for my own that are exactly how I like them.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:38 PM   #165
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That's beyond me, but it sounds awesome. I'm definitely not tech savy. Especially photoshop, that's WAY to complicated for me. I feel like a fine tip sharpie would be much simpler
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:47 PM   #166
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That's beyond me, but it sounds awesome. I'm definitely not tech savy. Especially photoshop, that's WAY to complicated for me. I feel like a fine tip sharpie would be much simpler

I'm too OCD for sharpie
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:30 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by JimboBurnsy View Post
I'll let you know how these work out. I seem to recall that your draw weight is slightly less so you may be able to put more weight up front.

With the carbon-to-carbon measurement at 31.25", with a 100 grain brass insert and wearing a 100-grain point, my FOC should be in the neighborhood of 17-18% and the arrow, by the calculator, should be a little overspined.

If I need it, I can go up to a 175 grain point and not be underspined and push the FOC up around 20%.

My new "light" arrow configuration is going to be 550 grains. I'll see if I can fit a second sight tape on my slider to switch back and forth between FOC and whitetail arrows.
I would be a little concerned about the tune of each one of these set ups being different, possibly? Let us know if that type of set up on your 2 arrows and 2 sight tapes work. Good luck and keep the info and talk/comments/set UPS coming. Interesting to see what everyone else is doing or trying.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:23 AM   #168
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I would be a little concerned about the tune of each one of these set ups being different, possibly? Let us know if that type of set up on your 2 arrows and 2 sight tapes work. Good luck and keep the info and talk/comments/set UPS coming. Interesting to see what everyone else is doing or trying.
That's definitely a legitimate concern and I'm rapidly leaning farther and farther towards just shooting a strong 550 grain arrow and keeping things simple.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:58 PM   #169
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Since the draw length on my bow is 31" instead of 32" how will that affect my arrow spine?
Will the 340's work or so I still need 300 or 250's?

I don't think 1" will make a difference

Last edited by Pushbutton2; 11-20-2014 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:04 PM   #170
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I'm gunna say still need a 300 or 250. Because I'm 28" dl. 28" arrow and I'm right on the edge of being weak
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:07 PM   #171
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I'm gunna say still need a 300 or 250. Because I'm 28" dl. 28" arrow and I'm right on the edge of being weak

What spine are you shooting?

How did you determine you were on the edge of having a weak spone?
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:40 PM   #172
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What spine are you shooting?

How did you determine you were on the edge of having a weak spone?
A weak arrow can always be tune. Now that I said that. I will say all bows above 30 in draw and above 330 fps need a 300 spine. With normal front weight. If your going to add weight to get a higher foc you will need a 250 spine.

I understand your trying to learn. Hell we are all trying to learn, but this has been told a lot in this thread.

Go to pinwheel ontarget and down load the program. Do all the playing you want with it. But no matter what. If your looking for any amount of weight up front. I bet the program tells you 250 spine.

At that point stop listening to everyone here. Go buy you some arrows. Tune the bow and go have fun.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:08 AM   #173
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What spine are you shooting?

How did you determine you were on the edge of having a weak spone?
Pushbutton I'm shooting black eagle deep impacts .350 and muddy let me know I was right on the edge when he made my arrows. And that I would be fine. And they have been.

This has been a great thread and like enewman said we've all learned something from it.
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Old 11-21-2014, 10:23 AM   #174
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Pushbutton2

I just reread what I wrote. It sounds rude. By no means did I mean for it to sound like that.

I have the over analyze problem. I think they call it OCD. Haha. I do reach a point that I think it becomes a waist of time. I've been bare shaft tuning. I'm beginning to think its a waist. My form is not good enough.

What I'm been doing is paper tuning starting at 6 ft and back up three ft at a time out to 20 yards. And make sure I have a group of arrows all bullet holes.

I do think bare shaft bullets holes out to 20 yards would be great. But I do not have the form nor do I hunt with bare shaft.

I think you can tune just about any arrow to shoot, but I do think it's easier when the spine is close to what you need. The bad thing is for a correct spine and a heavy foc your overly long draw is a problem. Haha. That's what us short people say to try to justify being vertically challenged.
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:05 PM   #175
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Pushbutton2

I just reread what I wrote. It sounds rude. By no means did I mean for it to sound like that.

I have the over analyze problem. I think they call it OCD. Haha. I do reach a point that I think it becomes a waist of time. I've been bare shaft tuning. I'm beginning to think its a waist. My form is not good enough.

What I'm been doing is paper tuning starting at 6 ft and back up three ft at a time out to 20 yards. And make sure I have a group of arrows all bullet holes.

I do think bare shaft bullets holes out to 20 yards would be great. But I do not have the form nor do I hunt with bare shaft.

I think you can tune just about any arrow to shoot, but I do think it's easier when the spine is close to what you need. The bad thing is for a correct spine and a heavy foc your overly long draw is a problem. Haha. That's what us short people say to try to justify being vertically challenged.

Initially I was put off a little by your reply. Then I remembered all my bad days and I was fine!
I'm being told by people who's opinion I respect that what I'm shooting is fine and others I'm to weak.
I'm looking for a way, procedure, process or whatever to determine myself what it is that I Like, want, or ?????
To me this is in intriguing problem. :-) I really enjoy intriguing problems? But if you enjoy something is it still a problem?

I received a soft part time job offer from the bow shop the last time I was in there. I've never given it a lot of thought before. I'm intrigued :-)

Last edited by Pushbutton2; 11-21-2014 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:00 PM   #176
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Initially I was put off a little by your reply. Then I remembered all my bad days and I was fine!
I'm being told by people who's opinion I respect that what I'm shooting is fine and others I'm to weak.
I'm looking for a way, procedure, process or whatever to determine myself what it is that I Like, want, or ?????
To me this is in intriguing problem. :-) I really enjoy intriguing problems? But if you enjoy something is it still a problem?

I received a soft part time job offer from the bow shop the last time I was in there. I've never given it a lot of thought before. I'm intrigued :-)
That is a bad thing about writing. No emotions. And I leave words out. And you are right on problems. I'm still looking for the best way for me for tuning. But again is that really a problem haha

It's kind of like paper tuning. I have never done it. Most say why waist the time go straight to walk back. I've been playing with paper and I do see a advantage. But again is it worth it. That is what I'm working on now.

Part of the problem is trying to shoot a heavy foc. Some say it's easy to tune a heavy foc. What I'm finding is it's not. Or at least for me. Now dynamic spine comes into play big time

Last edited by enewman; 11-21-2014 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:42 PM   #177
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all things in moderation guys...........................moderation. building an extremely light arrow can be just as tricky as building a heavy arrow. the middle road is still where you can have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:07 PM   #178
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all things in moderation guys...........................moderation. building an extremely light arrow can be just as tricky as building a heavy arrow. the middle road is still where you can have your cake and eat it too.
Haha I do nothing in moderation. I'm the guy that's says, here hold my beer.
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:55 PM   #179
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all things in moderation guys...........................moderation. building an extremely light arrow can be just as tricky as building a heavy arrow. the middle road is still where you can have your cake and eat it too.
Moderation? I'm not familiar with that word;-) isn't that when you and your lawyer get together with her and her lawyer to try and solve a problem before seeing a Judge :-)

Middle of the road is filled with cements walls, trees, brush and other nefarious things :-)
I want to drive a Mack truck on the Autobahn


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Haha I do nothing in moderation. I'm the guy that's says, here hold my beer.

Me too!!
Since I don't drink it's here hold my Double chocolate frappe machiatoe espresso double milk soy latte cappachino ;-))

But I ain't scared either ;-)
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:57 PM   #180
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Moderation? I'm not familiar with that word;-) isn't that when you and your lawyer get together with her and her lawyer to try and solve a problem before seeing a Judge :-)

Middle of the road is filled with cements walls, trees, brush and other nefarious things :-)
I want to drive a Mack truck on the Autobahn





Me too!!
Since I don't drink it's here hold my Double chocolate frappe machiatoe espresso double milk soy latte cappachino ;-))

But I ain't scared either ;-)
All right we got to meet. That's funny
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:08 PM   #181
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4 pages on FOC lol who ever goes to build some arrows will find this handy for sure
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:51 PM   #182
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Here's an interesting anomaly is just discovered.
I built one Goldtip Expedition Hunter when I bought my bow. It has Gold tip 2" vanes. not sure of the glue.

I's 29.0625 Inches knock to Carbon the Balance Point is 19.0625'' giving me an FOC of 15.591%.
The 6 arrows I had built last Saturday are Goldtip XT Hunters with Blazers and 2 part epoxy glue.
They're 29.0625" long the Balance Point is 18.8750" giving me an FOC of 14.946%.

Are the Goldtip vanes lighter?

Is it worth to chase the .645 percent?

Last edited by Pushbutton2; 11-21-2014 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:59 PM   #183
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I would have thought it would take more then that to make 1% difference. I think I saw where muddyfuzzy wrote around 20 gns to add like 2% gain. No way the goldtip vanes are that much lighter. ???
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Old 11-21-2014, 08:00 PM   #184
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Here's an interesting anomaly is just discovered.
I built one Goldtip Expedition Hunter when I bought my bow. It has Gold tip 2" vanes. not sure of the glue.

I's 29.0625 Inches knock to Carbon the Balance Point is 19.0625'' giving me an FOC of 15.591%.
The 6 arrows I had built last Saturday are Goldtip XT Hunters with Blazers and 2 part epoxy glue.
They're 29.0625" long the Balance Point is 18.8750" giving me an FOC of 14.946%.

Are the Goldtip vanes lighter?

Is it worth to chase the .645 percent?
I just Googled it.
According to Goldtips websites the 2" HP vane weighs 5.2 Grains
According to Bohning.com the Blazers weigh 6 Grains. giving me 2.4 grains extra on the back.
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Old 11-21-2014, 08:20 PM   #185
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Never would have thought that little would make that big of a difference.
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Old 11-21-2014, 08:26 PM   #186
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Maybe the difference is also in the amount of glue used also ?
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Old 11-21-2014, 08:43 PM   #187
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Never would have thought that little would make that big of a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyt21 View Post
Maybe the difference is also in the amount of glue used also ?
Both excellent posts!

Same shop built both arrows.

Here's the spreadsheet I made.


Last edited by Pushbutton2; 11-21-2014 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 11-21-2014, 08:46 PM   #188
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No see spreadsheet lol
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Old 11-21-2014, 08:50 PM   #189
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I set my 100 grain inserts in my new Rampage 250s yesterday afternoon. With any luck they will go in the jo-jan this weekend. I couldn't stand it and screwed one of my slick tricks into one of the shafts. I don't know how to explain the feeling I have looking at this unfletched shaft with a broadhead in it other than "It's just BEGGING to kill something."

FWIW, the interior and exterior dimensions seem to be exactly the same as my Easton Axis 300s and the perfectly routine HIT insert installation supports that. There is a big difference in stiffness between the two, however. I don't have a deflection gauge, but I can easily tell the Rampage from the Axis with my eyes closed by flexing.


Excited as ****.
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Old 11-21-2014, 08:57 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by hoyt21 View Post
No see spreadsheet lol
my tablets not doing it thing.
trying my iPhone now
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:06 PM   #191
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I set my 100 grain inserts in my new Rampage 250s yesterday afternoon. With any luck they will go in the jo-jan this weekend. I couldn't stand it and screwed one of my slick tricks into one of the shafts. I don't know how to explain the feeling I have looking at this unfletched shaft with a broadhead in it other than "It's just BEGGING to kill something."

FWIW, the interior and exterior dimensions seem to be exactly the same as my Easton Axis 300s and the perfectly routine HIT insert installation supports that. There is a big difference in stiffness between the two, however. I don't have a deflection gauge, but I can easily tell the Rampage from the Axis with my eyes closed by flexing.


Excited as ****.
Awesome!!!!!
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:11 PM   #192
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No see spreadsheet lol
I just edited it into my post about it.

Can you think of anything else I need to add/edit to it?
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:13 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by JimboBurnsy View Post
I set my 100 grain inserts in my new Rampage 250s yesterday afternoon. With any luck they will go in the jo-jan this weekend. I couldn't stand it and screwed one of my slick tricks into one of the shafts. I don't know how to explain the feeling I have looking at this unfletched shaft with a broadhead in it other than "It's just BEGGING to kill something."

FWIW, the interior and exterior dimensions seem to be exactly the same as my Easton Axis 300s and the perfectly routine HIT insert installation supports that. There is a big difference in stiffness between the two, however. I don't have a deflection gauge, but I can easily tell the Rampage from the Axis with my eyes closed by flexing.


Excited as ****.
my Goldtip arrows have the deal on the back of the insert where I can add some more screw in weight from the knock side if I want to add more.

Does your?
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:17 PM   #194
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Default FOC increase

Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1416625927.297715.jpg
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Just finished up these for Hoyt21. Ended up @ 373 with 20% FOC. She's running a total of 167 grains up front. These will be shot out of a 46# passion @ 26"s. Should be an awesome set-up with the heads he has selected.

Last edited by muddyfuzzy; 11-21-2014 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:21 PM   #195
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The arrows look good. But your cheating on the foc by laying the back half of the arrow on the rock chucker hehe
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:21 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by muddyfuzzy View Post
Attachment 672521Attachment 672522
Just finished up these for Hoyt21. Ended up @ 373 with 20% FOC. She's running a total of 167 grains up front. These will be shot out of a 46# passion @ 26"s. Should be an awesome set-up with the heads he has selected.


Ooohhhhh yyyeeeeaaaaaaa!!!!!

The heads of choice
125 gr soild

Oh yea these are for the mrs. Lol
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:24 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddyfuzzy View Post
Attachment 672521Attachment 672522
Just finished up these for Hoyt21. Ended up @ 373 with 20% FOC. She's running a total of 167 grains up front. These will be shot out of a 46# passion @ 26"s. Should be an awesome set-up with the heads he has selected.

Looks good!


That's what I want in a 29" arrow



What's to protocol to get it balance long enough on your finger to be able to us the other hand to snap a photo!
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Old 11-21-2014, 10:56 PM   #198
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No pics of mine but im shooting bloodsport fps hunters 350 spine, bohning 4" wrap, three nitro 2" vanes, bloodsport nock and insert. Im running 50gr insert wt with 100gr tip. Arrow is 25.5" carbon to carbon. Bow is an xpedition xcentric 27" draw and 67-68ish pounds. Foc on arrow is 16.3%. Should shoot great. Hope to get to shoot tomorrow.

Muddy, whats your thoughts on my set up?
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Old 11-22-2014, 12:16 AM   #199
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No pics of mine but im shooting bloodsport fps hunters 350 spine, bohning 4" wrap, three nitro 2" vanes, bloodsport nock and insert. Im running 50gr insert wt with 100gr tip. Arrow is 25.5" carbon to carbon. Bow is an xpedition xcentric 27" draw and 67-68ish pounds. Foc on arrow is 16.3%. Should shoot great. Hope to get to shoot tomorrow.

Muddy, whats your thoughts on my set up?

Sounds like you are right where you need to be.
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Old 11-22-2014, 05:12 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by hoyt21 View Post
Ooohhhhh yyyeeeeaaaaaaa!!!!!

The heads of choice
125 gr soild

Oh yea these are for the mrs. Lol
Year supposed to get the good heads for yourself.

I sure like the way them look

With that head and the arrow muddy built. All I can say is dang.
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