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Old 12-04-2017, 06:55 PM   #1
Saddle Tramp
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Unhappy More Public Land Gone

Trump just signed into law the reduction of two parks out west by millions of acres opening them up for coal, nat. gas and oil.
So easy to destroy and never get back. This is a sad day in my opinion. We will never get that land back big money will have it destroyed in no time.
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Old 12-04-2017, 06:57 PM   #2
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Any websites talking about this?

Awful if true...

One of the major suckage sides of the Republican Party is the willingness to dissolve our public lands for industrial reasons. If I remember right he said in Nevada, a month or so before the election on his campaign trail, that he was a big proponent of public lands..... Sigh....
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:03 PM   #3
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Link?
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:04 PM   #4
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Please do some research to avoid foot-in-mouth disease.

All Trump did was put land back in the control of the State. Obama did a land grab right before he left office. I will never understand the arguement or thought process that thinks Federal employees thousands of miles away and who have likely never even come near these places are better qualified to manage these lands than those who are local. These were State lands that Obama tried to take.
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:07 PM   #5
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Please do some research to avoid foot-in-mouth disease.

All Trump did was put land back in the control of the State. Obama did a land grab right before he left office. I will never understand the arguement or thought process that thinks Federal employees thousands of miles away and who have likely never even come near these places are better qualified to manage these lands than those who are local. These were State lands that Obama tried to take.


More than likely.this will open up 3 mil acres not close them
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:11 PM   #6
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Now I can take my 4wd vehicle and camp out there. They had made it all off limits. It is all federal land and now it will be run by USFS and BLM instead of the parks. This is not a bad thing
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:17 PM   #7
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Don't fall into the trap of believing the media. Look at the truth. Obama, with a pen stroke and no input form Utah, put millions of federal land under the antiquities act and completely removed it from all hunting, camping and fishing. He did this with half a BILLION ACRES in the west. And it removed all access of the public to these areas as recreation. Keep in mind, these areas had previously been managed for hunting and fishing, and was a Mecca for hunting. Obama took all that away, and I didn't see one democrat scream about it. Now, trump gave it back. He didn't take anything away from the public. He GAVE IT BACK.
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Rush2Judge View Post
Please do some research to avoid foot-in-mouth disease.

All Trump did was put land back in the control of the State. Obama did a land grab right before he left office. I will never understand the arguement or thought process that thinks Federal employees thousands of miles away and who have likely never even come near these places are better qualified to manage these lands than those who are local. These were State lands that Obama tried to take.
Thanks for clarifying this

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Old 12-04-2017, 07:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Saddle Tramp View Post
Trump just signed into law the reduction of two parks out west by millions of acres opening them up for coal, nat. gas and oil.
So easy to destroy and never get back. This is a sad day in my opinion. We will never get that land back big money will have it destroyed in no time.
Fake news is even present on the green screen! Switch the channel to fox and they won’t tell you untruths. Doesn’t have anything to do with destroying natural land. Quite the opposite.
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:23 PM   #10
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Any websites talking about this?

Awful if true...

One of the major suckage sides of the Republican Party is the willingness to dissolve our public lands for industrial reasons. If I remember right he said in Nevada, a month or so before the election on his campaign trail, that he was a big proponent of public lands..... Sigh....


If you think public land belongs to the public and NOT the government, and should be managed for hunting and fishing, as well as other public use, and run by biologists and wildlife managers that live there, instead of a liberal beurocrat in Washington, then this is a good thing. If you want half a billion acres REMOVED from public use, and end hunting in Utah, and much of the west, then it's a bad thing for you.
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:25 PM   #11
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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...-decision.html
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:25 PM   #12
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Trump just signed into law the reduction of two parks out west by millions of acres opening them up for coal, nat. gas and oil.
So easy to destroy and never get back. This is a sad day in my opinion. We will never get that land back big money will have it destroyed in no time.
Don’t drink to much backcountry hunters and anglers cool aide.

Guess timber harvest is bad also. It was public land before it was a monument and will be long after its a shrunken monument
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:30 PM   #13
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Amen
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:38 PM   #14
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Amen
Ditto! This thread should be called "More public land open"
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:45 PM   #15
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Open to Resource Extraction if you by that as good remember it in ten years when there's a big hole and bad water.
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:46 PM   #16
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Thanks for the read!
Seems like a redistribution of managment to other agencies over the land to help budgets and maintenance so doesn’t look like a bad thing.
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:53 PM   #17
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Open to Resource Extraction if you by that as good remember it in ten years when there's a big hole and bad water.


Over half a billion acres leaves a lot of room for holes. And hunting and fishing. This land was available for all that before obama took it away, and it wasn't all big holes. It still won't be.
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:13 PM   #18
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Them logging roads sure do make it possible for a man to get into some of those billions of acres
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:42 PM   #19
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Open to Resource Extraction if you by that as good remember it in ten years when there's a big hole and bad water.
Yea, like all the other public land in Texas? I.e. Sam Houston NF, Sabine NF, Angelina NF, etc, etc? This land is bought or confiscated with tax payer dollars then said tax payer has no right or ability to use said land for any type of recreational activities. Public land should be just that...public!
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:43 PM   #20
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.
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:48 PM   #21
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tagged for the fireworks...I doubt we will ever see a retraction of this delusional doomsday prophesy from resource extraction devastation.

Good grief.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:26 PM   #22
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Open to Resource Extraction if you by that as good remember it in ten years when there's a big hole and bad water.
So you have never walked an ol logging road. That’s to bad, never hunted a re-growth area, never accessed a NF via an original logging road now maintained by USFS?
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:30 PM   #23
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#GoTrump
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:35 PM   #24
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Open to Resource Extraction if you by that as good remember it in ten years when there's a big hole and bad water.


Big holes and bad weather. Hitting all the talking points I see.

The people and Government of Utah themselves were against this when Obama signed it. The Fed has no business pulling that crap. It was essentially theft.

Sorry your girl Hillary lost. (Not really)


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Old 12-04-2017, 11:54 PM   #25
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During my career with the U.S. Forest Service I served as an Oil and Gas Natural Resource Specialist. The big, bad oil companies did not rape the land.

There are many laws and regulations put in place by Congress to protect our natural resources and many dedicated professionals working hard to make sure that our public lands are protected.

IMO what Trump just did will be a benefit to all recreation users and sportsmen.
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:01 AM   #26
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I tried to copy the link from the book of faces. There's a youtube video titled "true story of Bear's ears" that I just watched. Explains what was said above about Trump giving control back to the people.
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:14 AM   #27
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Maga
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:24 AM   #28
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OP took the clickbait title hook line and sinker.
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:46 AM   #29
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OP took the clickbait title hook line and sinker.


It happens. I saw several FB sites dedicated to trashing trump about this. Did you know that Bison Are almost extinct, and giving this land back will ensure that they will all be killed? Because you know, there was once millions all over 10 states in the west, and now there's not....
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:54 AM   #30
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Open to Resource Extraction if you by that as good remember it in ten years when there's a big hole and bad water.
How much Texas land would you like to have controlled by the Feds?????

I lived most of my life out west in AZ with a ranch in Utah hunting most of the western states. The worst thing is federal control
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:18 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rush2Judge View Post
Please do some research to avoid foot-in-mouth disease.

All Trump did was put land back in the control of the State. Obama did a land grab right before he left office. I will never understand the arguement or thought process that thinks Federal employees thousands of miles away and who have likely never even come near these places are better qualified to manage these lands than those who are local. These were State lands that Obama tried to take.


Isn't that the truth. Ignorance is not bliss as "they" say. Ignorance is ignorance. A little research goes a long ways.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:17 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Froggy View Post
During my career with the U.S. Forest Service I served as an Oil and Gas Natural Resource Specialist. The big, bad oil companies did not rape the land.

There are many laws and regulations put in place by Congress to protect our natural resources and many dedicated professionals working hard to make sure that our public lands are protected.

IMO what Trump just did will be a benefit to all recreation users and sportsmen.
The people that fight against the big, bad oil companies want us to stay dependent on purchasing oil from people who won't let woment drive and stone them for being raped.

So virtuous, so progressive.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:34 AM   #33
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Open to Resource Extraction if you by that as good remember it in ten years when there's a big hole and bad water.
There has not been a oil well drilled on that property in the last 34 years.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:39 AM   #34
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The people that manage the national forests in Texas(at least the Angelina NF) IMO would like to have more control over who accesses "their" land.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:41 AM   #35
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Sometimes it's better to come out and admit you made a mistake in a thread rather than sticking to your guns ( false assumptions ) and making things worse.

What Trump did is a great thing, not a travesty
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:43 AM   #36
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Patagonia has been going full retard the past couple years. Don’t buy anything from these idiots.

http://www.patagonia.com/home/


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Old 12-05-2017, 09:46 AM   #37
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Open to Resource Extraction if you by that as good remember it in ten years when there's a big hole and bad water.
Well don't stop there....go down to the 3rd talking point that you were given by the people that tell you how and what to think.
I went to Utah earlier this year and attended a town hall and heard both sides of the argument. Here's how it went....

For opening back up: Land can be used once again for fishing, camping, hunting and provide income/jobs via mineral extraction and so forth.

Against opening back up: White people are bad and want to destroy and rape what rightfully belongs to the Native Americans. I would like to point out it was all white people giving this speech and no Native Americans taking this position.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:49 AM   #38
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Reducing federal outreach, and giving the appropriate agencies restored power over the land? How the eff can you oppose that?
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:54 AM   #39
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Well don't stop there....go down to the 3rd talking point that you were given by the people that tell you how and what to think.
I went to Utah earlier this year and attended a town hall and heard both sides of the argument. Here's how it went....

For opening back up: Land can be used once again for fishing, camping, hunting and provide income/jobs via mineral extraction and so forth.

Against opening back up: White people are bad and want to destroy and rape what rightfully belongs to the Native Americans. I would like to point out it was all white people giving this speech and no Native Americans taking this position.




Nailed it.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:17 AM   #40
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Trump did not put land back in control of the state. The lands in question were federal land before they were designated National Monuments. All Trump has done is remove the National Monument designation, the land will remain under Federal control.

National Monuments created under The Antiquities Act have to be created from Federal Lands.

" The Antiquities Act of 1906, (Pub.L. 59–209, 34 Stat. 225, 54 U.S.C. § 320301–320303), is an act passed by the United States Congress and signed into law by Theodore Roosevelt on June 8, 1906. This law gives the President of the United States the authority to, by presidential proclamation, create national monuments from federal lands to protect significant natural, cultural, or scientific features. The Act has been used more than a hundred times since its passage. Its use occasionally creates significant controversy."
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:29 AM   #41
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Trump did not put land back in control of the state. The lands in question were federal land before they were designated National Monuments. All Trump has done is remove the National Monument designation, the land will remain under Federal control.



National Monuments created under The Antiquities Act have to be created from Federal Lands.



" The Antiquities Act of 1906, (Pub.L. 59–209, 34 Stat. 225, 54 U.S.C. § 320301–320303), is an act passed by the United States Congress and signed into law by Theodore Roosevelt on June 8, 1906. This law gives the President of the United States the authority to, by presidential proclamation, create national monuments from federal lands to protect significant natural, cultural, or scientific features. The Act has been used more than a hundred times since its passage. Its use occasionally creates significant controversy."


It is a good law if used as it was created, and it also states that these areas should be as small as possible to preserve the specific monument, not broadly claim millions of surrounding lands to set off limits to use. Obama abused this intentionally. Trump is fixing it.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:34 AM   #42
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Well don't stop there....go down to the 3rd talking point that you were given by the people that tell you how and what to think.

I went to Utah earlier this year and attended a town hall and heard both sides of the argument. Here's how it went....



For opening back up: Land can be used once again for fishing, camping, hunting and provide income/jobs via mineral extraction and so forth.



Against opening back up: White people are bad and want to destroy and rape what rightfully belongs to the Native Americans. I would like to point out it was all white people giving this speech and no Native Americans taking this position.


I saw the "protestors", all white, all from out of state, telling us that this is against the native Americans. One claimed its taking lands from them that have been theirs for 200 years. These particular lands haven't been native lands since 1850. And when one said natives will be banned form religious areas, it was pointed out that OBAMA shut down religious use of these lands. Trump is giving that access back. Then the story changed o trump destroying the environment.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:40 AM   #43
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I saw the "protestors", all white, all from out of state, telling us that this is against the native Americans. One claimed its taking lands from them that have been theirs for 200 years. These particular lands haven't been native lands since 1850. And when one said natives will be banned form religious areas, it was pointed out that OBAMA shut down religious use of these lands. Trump is giving that access back. Then the story changed o trump destroying the environment.
I guess their white privilege gives them the ability to speak for any race or nationality without consent, approval or agreement from said mentioned race.
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:47 PM   #44
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For opening back up: Land can be used once again for fishing, camping, hunting and provide income/jobs via mineral extraction and so forth.
A person could hunt these monuments prior to the re-designation yesterday...the land was basically treated like a Wilderness area. I would much prefer it stay a wilderness area rather than let cars an trucks and bikes in. More habitat that lazy American's refuse to walk to, and I can hunt.
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:49 PM   #45
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I would much prefer it stay a wilderness area rather than let cars an trucks and bikes in. More habitat that lazy American's refuse to walk to, and I can hunt.
Okey Dokey
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:14 PM   #46
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A person could hunt these monuments prior to the re-designation yesterday...the land was basically treated like a Wilderness area. I would much prefer it stay a wilderness area rather than let cars an trucks and bikes in. More habitat that lazy American's refuse to walk to, and I can hunt.


A person could hunt these lands before OBAMA made them monuments. Not after. That's exactly why the people that live there threw fits. The Feds gated roads and made it illegal to cross onto these lands. Lazy or not, a few million acres is a big place. if you can't camp on it or drive on it, or ride a horse on it, you can't GET to it. Unless you have wings you can't use it. You want to walk? Fine! Now you can. I would rather drive to this wilderness and hunt it, just like it has been for decades.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:49 PM   #47
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A person could hunt these lands before OBAMA made them monuments. Not after. That's exactly why the people that live there threw fits. The Feds gated roads and made it illegal to cross onto these lands. Lazy or not, a few million acres is a big place. if you can't camp on it or drive on it, or ride a horse on it, you can't GET to it. Unless you have wings you can't use it. You want to walk? Fine! Now you can. I would rather drive to this wilderness and hunt it, just like it has been for decades.
That's incorrect. You could hunt them before. Feel free to check the websites associated with each park. There may have been area's off limits, but most wasn't.

Also, Wilderness is a designation, which means no mechanical means of travel are allowed, and the area is free from development. That's essentially what these monuments were.

To be clear, I don't care one way or another, because in the end, nothing changed. Just a label. Glad the land is still BLM/USFS. I am glad the land didn't go back to the state is all.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:49 PM   #48
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That's incorrect. You could hunt them before. Feel free to check the websites associated with each park. There may have been area's off limits, but most wasn't.



Also, Wilderness is a designation, which means no mechanical means of travel are allowed, and the area is free from development. That's essentially what these monuments were.



To be clear, I don't care one way or another, because in the end, nothing changed. Just a label. Glad the land is still BLM/USFS. I am glad the land didn't go back to the state is all.


If you are glad the lands are under control of the federal government, then I doubt you can be persuaded to understand that under the antiquities act, this land was off limited to recreational uses. You say some areas were off limits? VAST areas were removed from use. That means no hunting, fishing, camping. That's why the citizens of Utah were enraged by this. Teump returned it back to what it was before, allowing hunting. If you think that's wrong, that's your opinion, but this also means millions of acres removed by OBAMA in other states will be returned, and now the BLM and USFWS will no longer look at hunters as trespassers.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:38 PM   #49
WItoTX
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If you are glad the lands are under control of the federal government, then I doubt you can be persuaded to understand that under the antiquities act, this land was off limited to recreational uses. You say some areas were off limits? VAST areas were removed from use. That means no hunting, fishing, camping. That's why the citizens of Utah were enraged by this. Teump returned it back to what it was before, allowing hunting. If you think that's wrong, that's your opinion, but this also means millions of acres removed by OBAMA in other states will be returned, and now the BLM and USFWS will no longer look at hunters as trespassers.
You could always hunt the property... Read paragraph 7.

https://www.grindtv.com/nature/every...s-controversy/

Folks gotta ease up off the FoxNews and back country hunters and anglers spin and see what really happened.

There is a huge potential economic benefit to open this area to mining. Also, tourists might now be able to use a road to go check it out. All these things are good, within reason.

A downside is that some of these areas are excellent bighorn sheep habitat. With the way they are susceptible to disease, it could be very bad for them. Especially if sheep farmers allow their domestic sheep onto this property.
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:13 PM   #50
flywise
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You could always hunt the property... Read paragraph 7.

https://www.grindtv.com/nature/every...s-controversy/

Folks gotta ease up off the FoxNews and back country hunters and anglers spin and see what really happened.

There is a huge potential economic benefit to open this area to mining. Also, tourists might now be able to use a road to go check it out. All these things are good, within reason.

A downside is that some of these areas are excellent bighorn sheep habitat. With the way they are susceptible to disease, it could be very bad for them. Especially if sheep farmers allow their domestic sheep onto this property.


They would need permits to do that and im sure the state would only do that if the wildlife dept. said it was ok
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