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Old 12-02-2017, 08:54 PM   #1
Geezy Rider
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Default Using a Heavier Broadhead?

I'm really new to trad and haven't killed anything yet with my set up.

I'm pulling 49# and my broadheads are 125 gn. Should I move up in weight or is 125 gn enough?
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Old 12-02-2017, 08:58 PM   #2
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Really depends. Someone will be along to thoroughly confound and confuse you shortly with all kinds of scientific information but your spine and head weight have to mesh. If yours does then you might have a workable combo.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:18 PM   #3
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Arrow weight weight rule of thumb for hunting is 10 grains per # of draw weight so your arrow should weigh around 490 grains. There are a lot of ways to get there - spine, length, head weight - and still have a well tuned arrow. With my 50# bows I get there with a 150 grain head and a 75 grain insert. That is on a 400 spine shaft but you can also get a 500 shaft to tune well depending on shaft length, your draw length and total tip weight. Clear as mud?

Last edited by jerp; 12-02-2017 at 09:21 PM..
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:47 PM   #4
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If the arrow flies straight, without lots of fishtailing, you should be good to go for deer. You can tune arrows that are too stiff by adding point weight, but at the end of the day, the biggest keys for penetration (a.k.a two holes and more blood to see) are great arrow flight and sharp broadheads. Assuming you can mess around with your setup and still have those two things, heavier arrows will pack a bigger punch, but it isn't necessary to kill whitetail.
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:17 AM   #5
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125 is very readily available and that’s why I use them. I use weighted inserts to accomplish my tuning. The more I get into this I’ve realized I like arrows of the heavier sort. Like around 11 gpp. I feel like I can control a heavier arrow better and my bow is whisper quiet.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:26 AM   #6
Geezy Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerp View Post
Arrow weight weight rule of thumb for hunting is 10 grains per # of draw weight so your arrow should weigh around 490 grains. There are a lot of ways to get there - spine, length, head weight - and still have a well tuned arrow. With my 50# bows I get there with a 150 grain head and a 75 grain insert. That is on a 400 spine shaft but you can also get a 500 shaft to tune well depending on shaft length, your draw length and total tip weight. Clear as mud?
I'm shooting a Gold Tip Hunter 3555/500 at 8.6 grains per inch. The arrow is 28.5 inches.
If I'm calculating it right then I'm way off on my weight. I'm coming up with 370.1 grain arrow.

So with the shaft coming in at 245.1 without a Broadhead, I would need to come up with another 244.9 grains. That would be a 175 grain BH and a 70 grain insert?
Sound about right?
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:00 AM   #7
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Close, here some more things that you should include.

How much does your insert weigh?

Vanes or Feathers?
How much do they weigh?

Lighted nock or standard?
How much does it weigh?

With Gold Tip Arrows you can use FACT weights. They screw to the back of your insert, i think it needs to be a Gold Tip insert, you can add weight up front that way.

Google Dr Ed Ashby. He's been studying arrows and penetration for like 30 years.

There's another guy too but I forget his name.

We had a thread on here in the old Equipment and Tuning forum, which got whacked in favor of a politics forum, it was called FOC increase it's got like 1100 replies.

Here's a link. It's archived you can only read not reply.

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...d.php?t=491686

Muddyfuzzy is one of our arrow builders, there's others but I forget who they are.

ENewman has been doing a lot of testing recently as well.


I shoot a compound. Used to be a light and fast guy. I'd not even consider anything OVER 420 grains or 7GPP. Bow mfr minimum weight.

I had a not so pleasant experience on my first bow hunt.
I now choose not to build arrows under 650 grains.
My draw length is 31.5Ē and I'm pulling 63#. I used to pull 72, don't hardly shoot anymore

Last edited by Pushbutton2; 12-03-2017 at 09:36 AM..
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Really depends. Someone will be along to thoroughly confound and confuse you shortly with all kinds of scientific information but your spine and head weight have to mesh. If yours does then you might have a workable combo.
Guess itís a good thing I donít shoot trad lol
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:37 AM   #9
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Guess itís a good thing I donít shoot trad lol

Doesn't both traditional and compound use the same principles to build arrows?
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:49 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
Doesn't both traditional and compound use the same principles to build arrows?
Yes sir it does main difference is trad you need to tune the arrow. And I do this method for my compound. But a compound you can also just tune the bow to the arrow.

But for flight and penetration purpose itís the same. Build the arrow with weight and put the weight on the front with the correct spine.
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:53 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
Doesn't both traditional and compound use the same principles to build arrows?
I don't know.
With compounds I just shot the grain weight arrow that the charts said to shoot and put a 100 grain Broadhead on the front. Always got pass through on deer and small pigs. Never got technical about it.

With trad everyone seems to be shooting much heavier arrows and for better performance on game it looks like I need to step it up a few notches.

I'm just worried that I'm too light on my setup, for my poundage, and may only wound instead of kill.
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:33 AM   #12
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What bow are you shooting?
What is your draw length? No guessing at it.
What is the draw weight at that draw length? No guessing at it.

One thing I am fairly positive about - that arrow is way to stiff as it is right now.

Rick
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:41 AM   #13
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What bow are you shooting?
What is your draw length? No guessing at it.
What is the draw weight at that draw length? No guessing at it.

One thing I am fairly positive about - that arrow is way to stiff as it is right now.

Rick
The bow is a Howatt Cavalier (pre Martin Archery)
My draw length is 28 inches but it's been a long time since I've been measured. I'll need to do that.
The draw weight for that bow is marked as 49# @ 28" but I'll need to go to a bow shop to verify that.
I got me some homework to do. I really want to get this right.
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:42 AM   #14
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Good luck on the quest Geezy. Im right there with you. Alot of necassary hokey pokey.

I really enjoyed and was motivated by Dr Ashbys demonstation of higher FOC causing the arrow to come out of paradox much faster than lesser FOCs.

Plenty of folk shooting deer with a 125 gr head on trad gear. However like KenWood...you might find your setup quiets down with a heavier arrow.
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezy Rider View Post
The bow is a Howatt Cavalier (pre Martin Archery)
My draw length is 28 inches but it's been a long time since I've been measured. I'll need to do that.
The draw weight for that bow is marked as 49# @ 28" but I'll need to go to a bow shop to verify that.
I got me some homework to do. I really want to get this right.
That's enough for me to work with.

Without changing anything else:
Pull your standard inserts, and install 100gr brass inserts.

That will put you right at:
9.5gpp / 460gr total arrow weight, 22.5% FOC, and well within a window of good tunability.

Just install the 100 grain inserts, and continue using the 125gr heads.
Adjust strike plate thickness, and nock point height for tuning.
Once you've tuned to good arrow flight, and accuracy, go get after it, because your rig will be much more than adequate for the task.

Rick
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBarbee View Post
That's enough for me to work with.

Without changing anything else:
Pull your standard inserts, and install 100gr brass inserts.

That will put you right at:
9.5gpp / 460gr total arrow weight, 22.5% FOC, and well within a window of good tunability.

Just install the 100 grain inserts, and continue using the 125gr heads.
Adjust strike plate thickness, and nock point height for tuning.
Once you've tuned to good arrow flight, and accuracy, go get after it, because your rig will be much more than adequate for the task.

Rick
Great Rick, thank you.
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:41 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Geezy Rider View Post
Great Rick, thank you.
You're quite welcome.

That was figuring it so you can keep the 125gr broadheads you have on hand.

"IF" you want to change broadheads, and continue using the standard inserts, 200 grain should work real well for you.

Rick
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Old 12-03-2017, 12:12 PM   #18
Geezy Rider
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Originally Posted by RickBarbee View Post
You're quite welcome.

That was figuring it so you can keep the 125gr broadheads you have on hand.

"IF" you want to change broadheads, and continue using the standard inserts, 200 grain should work real well for you.

Rick
Good deal. Im going to go to a pro shop this afternoon and see about getting some new inserts.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezy Rider View Post
Good deal. Im going to go to a pro shop this afternoon and see about getting some new inserts.
Cool Beans.

Just remember, you're gonna have to do some tuning to get them shooting the way they need to. They aren't gonna shoot anything like the way they do right now.

Rick
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:32 PM   #20
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Cool Beans.

Just remember, you're gonna have to do some tuning to get them shooting the way they need to. They aren't gonna shoot anything like the way they do right now.

Rick
Yes sir.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:13 AM   #21
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Geoff, my experience is it takes a lot of time and trial to get it right. The charts never seem to be right for me. I was shooting 49 @28 with C.E. 150's 125 grains and it did OK but I was never really happy with it. Now I am shooting 46@28 with CE 250's and 150grains. I am getting the best flight I ever had. I tried heavy adapters, and inserts but that never worked for me. My 145 gr. field points and my 2 Blade Magnus 150 gr. broadhead fly indentical.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:10 PM   #22
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Geoff, my experience is it takes a lot of time and trial to get it right. The charts never seem to be right for me. I was shooting 49 @28 with C.E. 150's 125 grains and it did OK but I was never really happy with it. Now I am shooting 46@28 with CE 250's and 150grains. I am getting the best flight I ever had. I tried heavy adapters, and inserts but that never worked for me. My 145 gr. field points and my 2 Blade Magnus 150 gr. broadhead fly indentical.
Yeah I can see that I'm going to have my work cut out for me. Going to be a fun experiment.
I just ordered some new broadheads in the 150/175 class and I've going to check out some new inserts. We'll see how it goes.
As far as tuning goes, my set up flies good with 125 gn flield points and broadheads.
Let's see what going heavy does.
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