Reply
Go Back   TexasBowhunter.com Community Discussion Forums > Topics > Game Management/Age & Score/Trailcam Pics
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2017, 01:51 PM   #51
krod777
Spike
 
krod777's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lake Kiowa,Tx
Hunt In: Montague,Cooke
Default

X2 on 14"
krod777 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-05-2017, 07:58 PM   #52
gtsticker
Ten Point
 
gtsticker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jarrell Texas
Hunt In: Lee and Fayette Counties. New Mexico
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamChampion12 View Post
I was told while in Sonora this weekend by a lontime wildlife biologist that when the AR was first introduced to to Texas that there were 3 restriction options that were proposed. 1) 13" inside spread 2) an unbranched antler 3)If the deer had at least 8pts then the 13" rule did not apply; but he said for some reason Texas chose not to add the 3rd option to the regs. I dont know how true that is, but the guy has been a wildlife biologist for 25+ years and a guide for the last 10+ so he really seemed to know his stuff. Anyone ever heard this or something similar?


No the third shoot factor was 6 points on one side. I worked in one of the first 6 counties it was introduced in!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
gtsticker is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-05-2017, 08:24 PM   #53
Rtsimp89
Four Point
 
Rtsimp89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Grayson county
Hunt In: Grayson Fannin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmurray View Post
I took a guy from Baton Rouge out hunting on a nice place in south Texas once. We had a 3 year old 10 point mid 140's deer come out about halfway through the evening hunt. I asked him, "If I wasn't here, would you shoot that deer?" His reply "Nope, I never woulda seen that deer, I woulda shot that 6 point an hour ago"
This got me good ha

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Rtsimp89 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-05-2017, 08:36 PM   #54
cva34
Eight Point
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: van vleck
Hunt In: LOOKING
Default

I think the reasoning is good But in most cases Hunters gota rely on there eyes at various ranges/lighting...GW uses a Ruler...and then a point is 1 " while not a point is 7/8"..Heck most people can't measure that close wirh Horns and Ruler in Hand....Just my 2C
cva34 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-05-2017, 09:55 PM   #55
bowmansdad
Pope & Young
 
bowmansdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Baytown, Texas
Default

I’m hunting a AR county for the 1st time, deciding if a buck is 13+ is not easy by any means. I’ve had TC’S out since October when I got the OK to hunt and have 5 or 6 bucks that are mature and possible shooters. I also have 3 or 4 young bucks that are legal but I elected not to shoot them. 4 or 5 more that are mature and won’t make AR. I managed to shoot a 15” funky horned 7 pt. cull with no teeth. Since it’s a 1 buck county, I’m done but happy with the big cull. It would be nice to shoot one more of the mature culls but I can see why the law reads as it does. Landowners shot 2 3 yr. old bucks, a 18” 8 and a tall tined 10, they would have been really nice in a couple of years. We have been discussing age since my old cull outweighed their 2 by a good 35 pounds.
bowmansdad is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-05-2017, 10:33 PM   #56
brokeno
Ten Point
 
brokeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Smiley, Texas
Hunt In: Gonzales & Young Co and anywhere
Default

The biggest problem with ar is you are harvesting your best deer with the best genetics and the letting the poor genetics deer survive breed and pass on more and more poor genetics. Let's say I have 100 head of cattle and 1 stud bull that sires the best calves every year and 3 other bulls that sire inferior calves every year. I need to make hamburger to feed my family so I am going to kill my stud bull and let the 3 other inferior bulls keep producing inferior calves. The same thing is happening to deer with only the best deer being harvested. there needs to be a way to harvest the inferior cull bucks without using your only buck tag.
brokeno is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-05-2017, 10:52 PM   #57
Traxx
Four Point
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ft Worth
Hunt In: Dawson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeno View Post
The biggest problem with ar is you are harvesting your best deer with the best genetics and the letting the poor genetics deer survive breed and pass on more and more poor genetics. Let's say I have 100 head of cattle and 1 stud bull that sires the best calves every year and 3 other bulls that sire inferior calves every year. I need to make hamburger to feed my family so I am going to kill my stud bull and let the 3 other inferior bulls keep producing inferior calves. The same thing is happening to deer with only the best deer being harvested. there needs to be a way to harvest the inferior cull bucks without using your only buck tag.
This
Traxx is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-05-2017, 10:55 PM   #58
RutnBuk
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Brownwood, Tx
Hunt In: Mills/Brown county
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeno View Post
The biggest problem with ar is you are harvesting your best deer with the best genetics and the letting the poor genetics deer survive breed and pass on more and more poor genetics. Let's say I have 100 head of cattle and 1 stud bull that sires the best calves every year and 3 other bulls that sire inferior calves every year. I need to make hamburger to feed my family so I am going to kill my stud bull and let the 3 other inferior bulls keep producing inferior calves. The same thing is happening to deer with only the best deer being harvested. there needs to be a way to harvest the inferior cull bucks without using your only buck tag.
Exactly this!
RutnBuk is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 11:22 AM   #59
IkemanTX
Eight Point
 
IkemanTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Denton
Hunt In: Caddo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traxx View Post
This


Quote:
Originally Posted by RutnBuk View Post
Exactly this!


Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeno View Post
The biggest problem with ar is you are harvesting your best deer with the best genetics and the letting the poor genetics deer survive breed and pass on more and more poor genetics. Let's say I have 100 head of cattle and 1 stud bull that sires the best calves every year and 3 other bulls that sire inferior calves every year. I need to make hamburger to feed my family so I am going to kill my stud bull and let the 3 other inferior bulls keep producing inferior calves. The same thing is happening to deer with only the best deer being harvested. there needs to be a way to harvest the inferior cull bucks without using your only buck tag.


The problem with this argument is that it has been shown time and time again that hunters can not change the genetic pool in low fence herds. The two things we can controls to a degree.... age and nutrition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IkemanTX is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 12:14 PM   #60
jshouse
Pope & Young
 
jshouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rockwall
Hunt In: NE Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeno View Post
The biggest problem with ar is you are harvesting your best deer with the best genetics and the letting the poor genetics deer survive breed and pass on more and more poor genetics. Let's say I have 100 head of cattle and 1 stud bull that sires the best calves every year and 3 other bulls that sire inferior calves every year. I need to make hamburger to feed my family so I am going to kill my stud bull and let the 3 other inferior bulls keep producing inferior calves. The same thing is happening to deer with only the best deer being harvested. there needs to be a way to harvest the inferior cull bucks without using your only buck tag.
I know there are exceptions, I think I have one on my hunt county place right now, but I have a hard time believing that there are places covered up with <13" MATURE bucks. IMO it all comes down to the hunter and/or the lease rules, you have to get guys to shoot the mature (4.5+) bucks even if there are some 2-3yo's that are legal and bigger.

again, assuming a large percentage of mature bucks are >13" anyway, hunters need to see the benefit in killing a buck based on age and not score and not be scared/ashamed/embarrassed, whatever, to kill a 5.5yo 120" buck and let that 3.5yo 130" walk.
jshouse is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 12:39 PM   #61
bossbowman
Ten Point
 
bossbowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Hunt In: Bastrop Bosque Freestone Grayson Hill McLennan Navarro Counties
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeno View Post
The biggest problem with ar is you are harvesting your best deer with the best genetics and the letting the poor genetics deer survive breed and pass on more and more poor genetics. Let's say I have 100 head of cattle and 1 stud bull that sires the best calves every year and 3 other bulls that sire inferior calves every year. I need to make hamburger to feed my family so I am going to kill my stud bull and let the 3 other inferior bulls keep producing inferior calves. The same thing is happening to deer with only the best deer being harvested. there needs to be a way to harvest the inferior cull bucks without using your only buck tag.
The females hold half the genetics so this doesn't really matter in a low fence environment.
bossbowman is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 12:47 PM   #62
jshouse
Pope & Young
 
jshouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rockwall
Hunt In: NE Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossbowman View Post
The females hold half the genetics so this doesn't really matter in a low fence environment.
so that leaves half with the buck too....I see his point, he just needs to figure out how to talk his buddies into the shooting one of the 3 inferior bulls instead of big stud bull.
jshouse is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 12:53 PM   #63
bossbowman
Ten Point
 
bossbowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Hunt In: Bastrop Bosque Freestone Grayson Hill McLennan Navarro Counties
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jshouse View Post
so that leaves half with the buck too....I see his point, he just needs to figure out how to talk his buddies into the shooting one of the 3 inferior bulls instead of big stud bull.
Yes, you also don't run a 50/50 bull to cow ratio in your pasture, its a controlled environment... like a high fence, low fence is a different animal, same rules do not apply.
bossbowman is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 12:59 PM   #64
Traxx
Four Point
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ft Worth
Hunt In: Dawson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
The problem with this argument is that it has been shown time and time again that hunters can not change the genetic pool in low fence herds. The two things we can controls to a degree.... age and nutrition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Okay time and time again. State your source.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Traxx is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 01:10 PM   #65
jshouse
Pope & Young
 
jshouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rockwall
Hunt In: NE Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
The problem with this argument is that it has been shown time and time again that hunters can not change the genetic pool in low fence herds. The two things we can controls to a degree.... age and nutrition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"can not" is a little harsh, I think "have very little effect" would be better. there are guys on this site that will say that they killed every spike they saw for XX years now see very few, or guys that targeted no brow tine bucks for XX years and have seen a dramatic difference in the number they currently see.

its possible to change it, not drastically, but over time subtle changes can be made.
jshouse is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 01:15 PM   #66
IkemanTX
Eight Point
 
IkemanTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Denton
Hunt In: Caddo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traxx View Post
Okay time and time again. State your source.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess QDMA has no clue about herd management practices...
https://www.qdma.com/cant-manage-deer-genetics/

Or this study referenced in deer and deer hunter where they had to switch to a captive herd to get any controlled results. Found that early yearling fawns can participate in breading (spreading possible “cull” genetics 2-3 consecutive years before being identified as a “cull”)
And quoted
- “Does it make sense to selectively harvest males for the purpose of improving herd genetics? Our results suggest that managers who attempt to alter herd genetics through selective harvest are, at the very least, fighting a Mt. Everest scale uphill battle.”
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/de...ective-harvest

And then everyone fails to ever provide any evidence that even highly controlled male populations can overcome the inclusion of unwanted genetics from the does (50% of the genetic makeup of every buck comes from the doe)

In a highly controlled environment, such as a farm, where both the doe and buck’s lineages are documented and selected.... you can definitely improve genetics quickly. With the vast range of genetic diversity, 50% of the genetic structure being uncontrollable (i.e. does), and the documented displacement rates and distances of young deer in their first year... we are fooling ourselves thinking that we are having a noticeable effect on the actual genetic makeup of the herd.

What is more likely the case is that hunters who are highly concerned with management practices are more likely to make improvements on food availability, buck/doe ratios, and overall age structures within the herd (all of which ARE in a manager’s control) which in Turn improves the overall antler quality of the bucks observed. These much larger contributions to herd health often get overlooked as the reason for improvement, and credit is unduly given to “cull” programs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IkemanTX is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 01:16 PM   #67
Traxx
Four Point
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ft Worth
Hunt In: Dawson
Default

I never said QDMA didn’t know their stuff just you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Traxx is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 01:18 PM   #68
IkemanTX
Eight Point
 
IkemanTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Denton
Hunt In: Caddo
Default Antler Restriction Question

I would argue that the inclusion of lineage controlled breeder bucks would have a MUCH faster, and longer lasting effect on the herd antler performance than cull selection.


In that case, you are injecting known dominant genetic performers into a gene pool rather than trying to remove a trait well engrained into the regions population.

Edit:
Or even more effectively, high quality bred does from the same lineages. In that scenario, you get 2 deer worth of improved genetics instead of 1. (And, does tend to live longer on average due to not having antler to help convince the hunter to shoot them)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by IkemanTX; 12-06-2017 at 01:20 PM.
IkemanTX is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 01:21 PM   #69
IkemanTX
Eight Point
 
IkemanTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Denton
Hunt In: Caddo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traxx View Post
I never said QDMA didn’t know their stuff just you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And yet you have provided absolutely ZERO references or facts to support your claim....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IkemanTX is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 01:22 PM   #70
Traxx
Four Point
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ft Worth
Hunt In: Dawson
Default

I also didn’t make absolute statements


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Traxx is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 01:28 PM   #71
IkemanTX
Eight Point
 
IkemanTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Denton
Hunt In: Caddo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traxx View Post
I also didn’t make absolute statements


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Would this statement better please you...

It has been shown time and time again that selective harvest provides VERY LITTLE, if any, long term controllable results in a low fence environment. Age structure, food availability, and buck/doe ratios are management goals that are much more effective in antler class improvement.

Although I would argue the brow tine results as a change in nutrition availability during brow time development over the years. (i.e. protein/corn supplements, food plots, agriculture practice changes etc..)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IkemanTX is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 01:29 PM   #72
Aggie PhD
Ten Point
 
Aggie PhD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Granbury
Hunt In: North of US90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
The problem with this argument is that it has been shown time and time again that hunters can not change the genetic pool in low fence herds. The two things we can controls to a degree.... age and nutrition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is spot on. Genetic drift and random selection of genes in a low fence population are factors that will overwhelm any effects of "genetic selection" through hunter harvests.............
Aggie PhD is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 01:32 PM   #73
Traxx
Four Point
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ft Worth
Hunt In: Dawson
Default

Not really, go ahead and state your sources while you’re at it. Try again and lighten up Frances


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Traxx is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 02:31 PM   #74
bossbowman
Ten Point
 
bossbowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Hunt In: Bastrop Bosque Freestone Grayson Hill McLennan Navarro Counties
Default

You may think your having an effect on your low fence deer but I can guarantee you the spotlighting road hunters that shoot it if its brown are thick around Dawson and are negating your efforts 100 fold...
bossbowman is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-06-2017, 11:46 PM   #75
BolilloLoco
Pope & Young
 
BolilloLoco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Cypress
Hunt In: Old Mexico, Washington County & Harris County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeno View Post
The biggest problem with ar is you are harvesting your best deer with the best genetics and the letting the poor genetics deer survive breed and pass on more and more poor genetics. Let's say I have 100 head of cattle and 1 stud bull that sires the best calves every year and 3 other bulls that sire inferior calves every year. I need to make hamburger to feed my family so I am going to kill my stud bull and let the 3 other inferior bulls keep producing inferior calves. The same thing is happening to deer with only the best deer being harvested. there needs to be a way to harvest the inferior cull bucks without using your only buck tag.
Ever heard of MLD? Hell, buy your wife/son/daughter/coworker a hunting license and go kill all them "culls". Where there's a will, there's a way. Come on man!!!
BolilloLoco is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-07-2017, 09:40 AM   #76
snappertapper
Ten Point
 
snappertapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: htown
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie PhD View Post
This is spot on. Genetic drift and random selection of genes in a low fence population are factors that will overwhelm any effects of "genetic selection" through hunter harvests.............
bingo.
snappertapper is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-13-2017, 05:28 PM   #77
jb5001
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Default

Then what's the reason for shooting spikes?
jb5001 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-13-2017, 05:49 PM   #78
Etxbuckman
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Spring
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb5001 View Post
Then what's the reason for shooting spikes?
Concession to landowner's to make AR's an easier sell, even though shooting spikes is generally stupid and the AR's were needed anyway.

I wish they'd just make it 1 buck and scrap the spike deal. That's my beef with the antler restriction program.
Etxbuckman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-13-2017, 06:10 PM   #79
WItoTX
Ten Point
 
WItoTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Katy
Hunt In: Wisconsin, New Mexico, Colorado, Montana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
What is more likely the case is that hunters who are highly concerned with management practices are more likely to make improvements on food availability, buck/doe ratios, and overall age structures within the herd (all of which ARE in a manager’s control) which in Turn improves the overall antler quality of the bucks observed. These much larger contributions to herd health often get overlooked as the reason for improvement, and credit is unduly given to “cull” programs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This.
WItoTX is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-13-2017, 06:43 PM   #80
LWD
Ten Point
 
LWD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Grapevine
Hunt In: Young County and anywhere else I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicBlade View Post
Most of the bucks on our lease are under 13" even older bucks.
Although a lot are young, the question came up this last week as to what is the purpose of the Antler Restriction rule.

Is it to improve quantity or quality of the deer herd?

If an older deer is under 13" and continues to breed, won't the genetics continue to be under 13"??????
To answer the OP's question, the 13" rule is designed to keep Bubba and Cletus off the trigger. Many years ago, in the dark days before antler restrictions, I was on a lease in southwest Jack County. Opening morning sounded like the D-Day invasion of Normandy. When you got into town, you saw lots of very young deer being offloaded. Everyone got their buck. Many were the first hard-antlered deer to appear that morning! People just were not shooting mature deer. They were shooting year-and-a-half old deer. One opening morning, I saw two guys dropping off deer. One was a 4-point; the other a 6-point. Neither was more than 1.5 years old. Why did they shoot these deer?

The 13" rule is a proxy for age. Is it perfect? No. Is it very good? Yes. Sure, there are mature deer that don't go and won't ever go 13", but they are few and far between. Most people who claim to be overrun with these deer really don't know how to age deer or are only now seeing 2.5 and 3.5 year old deer due to antler restrictions.

LWD
LWD is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-13-2017, 09:32 PM   #81
ShaBow
Ten Point
 
ShaBow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sour Lake,Tx.
Hunt In: A Tree
Default

Sad thing is now they are shooting nice 2yo bucks just barely legal. Lol! But I definitely agree it is definitely better than before. Just wish on these small easttexas tracks of land we could let them get even a few more years on them somehow.
ShaBow is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-13-2017, 10:58 PM   #82
bossbowman
Ten Point
 
bossbowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Hunt In: Bastrop Bosque Freestone Grayson Hill McLennan Navarro Counties
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb5001 View Post
Then what's the reason for shooting spikes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etxbuckman View Post
Concession to landowner's to make AR's an easier sell,
Bingo, I agree it doesn't make complete sense but I like the idea of having the option of taking a spike as a meat deer if I want to and have done it a three times since they started the AR here in 2006, all different counties though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LWD View Post
Most people who claim to be overrun with these deer really don't know how to age deer or are only now seeing 2.5 and 3.5 year old deer due to antler restrictions.

LWD
Bingo again

Last edited by bossbowman; 12-13-2017 at 11:02 PM.
bossbowman is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 09:05 AM   #83
Drycreek3189
Pope & Young
 
Drycreek3189's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by etxbuckman View Post
concession to landowner's to make ar's an easier sell, even though shooting spikes is generally stupid and the ar's were needed anyway.

I wish they'd just make it 1 buck and scrap the spike deal. That's my beef with the antler restriction program.
this !
Drycreek3189 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 09:19 AM   #84
Ruttin&Struttin
Eight Point
 
Ruttin&Struttin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: North Texas
Hunt In: North Texas, South East Texas, Hill Country
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustoffer View Post
The quality of the bucks here in Guadalupe County has gone up substantially on the place I hunt since ARs were enacted. What used to be a parade of spikes and little cabbage racks is no more--
I hunt 4 different counties. All have benefited greatly.

Everyone has a different definition of what a mature deer is and/or can't age deer well. I have family that believes a 2 or 3 year old is mature. This is because where they hunt anything with antlers was always shot. Now they complain that their mature deer don't meet restrictions. They send me pics and I tell the deer they are sending a 2 or 3. Not saying this is the case here. Just saying.
Ruttin&Struttin is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 09:27 AM   #85
Ruttin&Struttin
Eight Point
 
Ruttin&Struttin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: North Texas
Hunt In: North Texas, South East Texas, Hill Country
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etxbuckman View Post
I've always been perplexed by the meat hunters who admit to gladly passing a doe and happily shoot a young buck.



A lot of guys I know would rather shoot an ugly mature buck than a younger one with a better rack. Personally I'm glad it's just one buck 13"+ that's allowed. Otherwise you'd have too many guys taking liberties with deer they ought not to.
Give me an old ugly bruiser every time. Let the young bucks walk, eat, breed and grow. I don't care what they look like at 3. Because if they make it to 5 they will be that much better. I agree. One 13+ per county is fair.
Ruttin&Struttin is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 09:49 AM   #86
stinkbelly
Pope & Young
 
stinkbelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Weatherford
Default

My son and the neighbors shot all the legal bucks this year in our area. I have been watching older narrow bucks chase and breed does lately. Hopefully some of the does got bred before the wide bucks were shot.
stinkbelly is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 10:00 AM   #87
Etxbuckman
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Spring
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruttin&Struttin View Post
Give me an old ugly bruiser every time.
Me too. I've got a buck I've been after for 2 seasons now that won't score worth squat- and he's ugly as hell- but I swear he must've come over on the land bridge during the last ice age. I wanna get him just for that reason.
Etxbuckman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 10:22 AM   #88
DCT
Ten Point
 
DCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Silsbee,Texas
Hunt In: Tyler County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkbelly View Post
My son and the neighbors shot all the legal bucks this year in our area. I have been watching older narrow bucks chase and breed does lately. Hopefully some of the does got bred before the wide bucks were shot.
This is the problem I'm seeing in my area. If it makes 13" it gets dropped. While we have a problem with bad genetics of TALL narrow racks. With anything that is 13" or wide is being shot this leaves only the narrow rack genetics bucks to bread. I'm on the stand now and just watched a big 7pt that needs to be taken out but he's about 12 1/2 ". This is just my opinion but here in the piney woods wear I hunt it is thick. I think the deer have adapted to this and are growing taller. Many years ago before the AR law my dad shot a 13pt off of one of my stands that was 12 3/4" inside. The dog catcher's where 13" long one of the tallest rack I have seen. He was aged at 6 1/2 years old. Today it wouldn't be a legal deer.
DCT is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 10:29 AM   #89
DCT
Ten Point
 
DCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Silsbee,Texas
Hunt In: Tyler County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCT View Post
This is the problem I'm seeing in my area. If it makes 13" it gets dropped. While we have a problem with bad genetics of TALL narrow racks. With anything that is 13" or wide is being shot this leaves only the narrow rack genetics bucks to bread. I'm on the stand now and just watched a big 7pt that needs to be taken out but he's about 12 1/2 ". This is just my opinion but here in the piney woods wear I hunt it is thick. I think the deer have adapted to this and are growing taller. Many years ago before the AR law my dad shot a 13pt off of one of my stands that was 12 3/4" inside. The dog catcher's where 13" long one of the tallest rack I have seen. He was aged at 6 1/2 years old. Today it wouldn't be a legal deer.
This is what most of the deer on our lease looks like just not this wide. I have watched two 8pts that looks just like this deer this year but are not the 13" inside. This is one my daughter took about two years ago.
Attached Images
 
DCT is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 10:30 AM   #90
DCT
Ten Point
 
DCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Silsbee,Texas
Hunt In: Tyler County
Default

Sorry for the sideways picture. I don't know why my phone always does it this way.
DCT is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 10:38 AM   #91
Ruttin&Struttin
Eight Point
 
Ruttin&Struttin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: North Texas
Hunt In: North Texas, South East Texas, Hill Country
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etxbuckman View Post
Me too. I've got a buck I've been after for 2 seasons now that won't score worth squat- and he's ugly as hell- but I swear he must've come over on the land bridge during the last ice age. I wanna get him just for that reason.
If you get him please send me a pic.
I love an old, gnarly buck. There is one coming through every few days on my property now that is probably 5. He fought so much the past two years he broke off points last year and half a main beam the year before. This year he showed up one night looking fit and healthy. Then the next he was missing an eye! The dude is a scrapper. I hope he makes it to next season. He'll be my target buck ALL season even though there are much "better" bucks that come through.
Ruttin&Struttin is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 12:29 PM   #92
gingib
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Central Tx
Hunt In: NTX
Default

sorry but most of your deer including older deer are less then 13 inches is not true. Never ever seen a place with only narrow under 13 inch bucks. Sorry

Now 1-2 bucks ok. I have 1 and his offspring every year.

I would love to see pics of ALL of the bucks you have on camera
gingib is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 12:31 PM   #93
gingib
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Central Tx
Hunt In: NTX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAC View Post
Ask anyone in the original 6 counties if AR has worked. Even the hardest headed Bohemians have seen the light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tl1197 View Post
Quality and quantity are both benefits of AR. I've seen great results where I hunt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
x2!!!!

20 years ago people were pumped about 110 inch deer. Now 130-150's are being shot regularly every year
gingib is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 12:44 PM   #94
byler11
Four Point
 
byler11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Hunt In: Fayette
Default

We took a 141 and 158 off our place this year in fayette county. Before the AR that wouldve never happend! We are part of the 6 original counties and its the best thing that has ever happened in our area. Ya some bucks need to be shot but you cant due to the AR and thats the way it is. No matter what we do their will always be deer that get by.
byler11 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 01:19 PM   #95
IkemanTX
Eight Point
 
IkemanTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Denton
Hunt In: Caddo
Default

I have a feeling that once the refs have been in place 20-30 years, and people get used to more mature bucks, the AR’s will be lifted. Or, even better..... the AR’s will have allowed such a large portion of the population to reach a decent age that the 13” rule won’t really matter because people will know the bigger ones are out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IkemanTX is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 03:52 PM   #96
Bucksaw
Ten Point
 
Bucksaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Reklaw
Hunt In: Jacksonville, Jasper, or Wherever Im invited
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
I have a feeling that once the refs have been in place 20-30 years, and people get used to more mature bucks, the AR’s will be lifted. Or, even better..... the AR’s will have allowed such a large portion of the population to reach a decent age that the 13” rule won’t really matter because people will know the bigger ones are out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, some people will always be the kind to shoot whatever walks out. The restrictions will always need to be there to protect the yearlings.
Bucksaw is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 04:33 PM   #97
Etxbuckman
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Spring
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruttin&Struttin View Post
If you get him please send me a pic.
I love an old, gnarly buck. There is one coming through every few days on my property now that is probably 5. He fought so much the past two years he broke off points last year and half a main beam the year before. This year he showed up one night looking fit and healthy. Then the next he was missing an eye! The dude is a scrapper. I hope he makes it to next season. He'll be my target buck ALL season even though there are much "better" bucks that come through.
I haven't ever even seen him, but here is on the hoof.

Name:  2.jpg
Views: 125
Size:  101.4 KB
Etxbuckman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-14-2017, 04:48 PM   #98
postman
Ten Point
 
postman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Default

|your perpetuating the genetics you dont want and killing off the genetics that you do want.....IMO
postman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-16-2017, 04:37 PM   #99
Etxnoodler
Eight Point
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeno View Post
The biggest problem with ar is you are harvesting your best deer with the best genetics and the letting the poor genetics deer survive breed and pass on more and more poor genetics. Let's say I have 100 head of cattle and 1 stud bull that sires the best calves every year and 3 other bulls that sire inferior calves every year. I need to make hamburger to feed my family so I am going to kill my stud bull and let the 3 other inferior bulls keep producing inferior calves. The same thing is happening to deer with only the best deer being harvested. there needs to be a way to harvest the inferior cull bucks without using your only buck tag.
A lot of AR counties were one buck counties before. So They still would either wait for the big buck or shoot the first one.
Etxnoodler is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 12-16-2017, 10:16 PM   #100
Ryan81
Eight Point
 
Ryan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NE Texas
Hunt In: NE Texas, Oklahoma
Default

I hunted a lease last year. First and only year on the place.

One morning me and my buddy were talking to another guy about what we saw. He said he saw a young deer. 5 point and regretted not shooting him.

That’s the type of guy the AR is meant for.

I also know others who shoot the first thing with horns to step out in front of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ryan81 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1999-2012, TexasBowhunter.com