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Old 05-30-2018, 03:33 PM   #1
Ronnie
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Building a Selfbow. If I back it with something besides wood is it still considered a selfbow?
What can I back it with to increase the draw weight considerably? Its red oak and feels like 30#s, would like at least. 45.
Its 72" long, how much could I shorten it to get it to around 45?
Also if I put fiberglass resin on it to hold the backing will it still be a Selfbow ( in tbot rules )?
Thanks in advance

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Old 05-30-2018, 03:58 PM   #2
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Any man made materials makes it a longbow, not a selfbow. Adding wood or bamboo to the limbs makes it a composite. Shortening it will get you more weight but I seriously doubt #15.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:07 PM   #3
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Backings must be of animal parts for tbot. The only backing to add poundage would be sinew. Red oak is poor in compression so it will crush with a weight adding backing. Best to cut it down. To add fifteen pounds I would only cut it 3/4” max on each end. That will probably be too much but you can shave weight off slowly to get what you want. Also red oak takes loads of set so it may be best to end up a little heavy. I would back a red oak board with raw hide to save your noggin. Kiln dried oak is unpredictable but not impossible to get a good shooter out of. I have one I backed with linen four years ago and it shoots great, just ain’t the prettiest of things. Good luck to you sir!
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:12 PM   #4
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Also exercise those limbs before putting it on the tiller tree each time. I found if you don’t, you can finish it out at a certain weight and it will lose weight fast with first fifty shots or so.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:19 PM   #5
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Thanks guys, I'll cut it down

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Old 05-30-2018, 04:47 PM   #6
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Is this your first selfbow? If so, leave it the weight it is tillering at, finish it, and build another bow. Don't get too hung up on hitting a certain weight until you have built a few that hold together.

Good luck, building bows is a lot of fun and I miss it.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:57 PM   #7
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Well back to the lumber pile. Lol Tried to draw it to 31" before I cut it down.
Yeah it was my first try so I'm not surprised nor too disappointed.
Next time I'll do better.

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Old 05-30-2018, 05:12 PM   #8
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You have a 31Ē DL???

Thatís a pretty serious hinge right there!

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Old 05-30-2018, 05:40 PM   #9
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Naw Bisch, I was gonna shorten the bow to try for more draw weight but pulled it to 31" first which I figured would be about equal to 29 after I shortened it. Didn't work!
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You have a 31Ē DL???

Thatís a pretty serious hinge right there!

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Old 05-30-2018, 05:45 PM   #10
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If you ain’t breakin you ain’t making! Boards must be perfect. Find you a hickory stave. No ring chasing, just pull off the bark and that’s your bow back. Just keep it dry, hickory soaks up all the moisture in the air. And if you have a 31” draw, leave all wood bows as long as possible. 72” would be a minimum on anything other than Osage. Even Osage would be best the longer it is.
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:48 PM   #11
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Sorry we posted at the same time. You would be amazed at how much weight shortening a bow puts on. By drawing it further your just drawing the same length lever further.
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:53 PM   #12
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Ok
Thanks Ken, I need all the advice I can get.
I'm just glad it was just a 9 dollar board.

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Old 05-31-2018, 12:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Ok
Thanks Ken, I need all the advice I can get.
I'm just glad it was just a 9 dollar board.

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How'd ole dad say " ya knocked me down and skin my chin but you son of a gun I'll try ya again"

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Old 05-31-2018, 06:19 PM   #14
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Bro..you live in osage land ...id go that roite first...better success with a shooter first er....second time out...lol
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:20 PM   #15
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Just take your time ..its not a race...youll get it
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Just take your time ..its not a race...youll get it
I don't know Dog, I'd give you odds that it breaks too.
I think I'll try some maple if it does. They got it at the lumber yard.
I haven't seen any Osage around here
but the only way I can recognize it is when it's bearing oranges. Ill keep an eye out now though.

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Old 05-31-2018, 08:34 PM   #17
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How are the growth rings positioned in the board? More importantly, the last board?
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
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How are the growth rings positioned in the board? More importantly, the last board?
They ran from one corner to the other diagonally on the ends and ran what looked like to me straight down the length of the board. I looked at least 30 boards before I found 3 that looked right. Of course I have no experience, just what I've read.
All 3 looked that way.

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Old 05-31-2018, 09:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
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They ran from one corner to the other diagonally on the ends and ran what looked like to me straight down the length of the board. I looked at least 30 boards before I found 3 that looked right. Of course I have no experience, just what I've read.
All 3 looked that way.

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How can I prevent string follow without backing the bow? Presuming I make one that doesn't break.

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Old 06-01-2018, 05:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
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How can I prevent string follow without backing the bow? Presuming I make one that doesn't break.

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Man, if I knew that answer, Iíd use red oak more often. Iíve left em wide and thin, narrow and thick, and exercised the limbs extremely slowly while tillering slowly. They take set. I think itís something about kiln dried lumber. Or maybe just oak. Iíve never tried heat treatment or heating reflex. I just could see that making it it more prone to breaking. Iíve often wondered about a Z splice in the handle like I would with Osage billets. Joining them with glued in reflex. Then again, if Iím gonna go through that much trouble, Iíll just get some Osage billets. Even if your bow takes set, itís ok. Especially your first. They still shoot good. Just donít have the cast it would have without it. Most importantly, donít draw the bow past the weight you want when tillering. That will minimize it.
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Old 06-01-2018, 06:25 AM   #21
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Red oak is tough. You have to go slow. I know a lot of places suggest board bows for beginners because they are cheap, but I know a lot of red oak board bows that ended up on the scrap pile by first time bowyers, while when we started guys with osage or quality hickory they got shooters. Maybe not pretty but shooters haha. I have actually never had a selfbow break but I think that's luck not skill.

Maybe post some pics of your tiller as you go and I am sure someone here can offer advice. Best thing I learned early was take a short piece of wood (I think 5-6" was what I used to use) and slide it along the bent limbs. Any flat spots show themselves immediately. Those are the areas that will get crysaling, hinges, break, etc.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:52 AM   #22
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Good luck with it Ron
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Old 06-01-2018, 06:30 PM   #23
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Well I tillered it until it was getting below 40# so I quit. Not real bad I don't guess.

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Old 06-01-2018, 06:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Well I tillered it until it was getting below 40# so I quit. Not real bad I don't guess.

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I shot it a couple of dozen times and it did pretty good. Little bit of hand shock but not bad at all. THEN, I noticed this.

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Old 06-01-2018, 06:38 PM   #25
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I shot it a couple of dozen times and it did pretty good. Little bit of hand shock but not bad at all. THEN, I noticed this.

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Like Ken said, if I ain't breakin, I ain't makin!

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Old 06-01-2018, 07:54 PM   #26
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Tiller was really even. Notice how flat the upper limbs were. Meaning most of your bend was at the fades. Just so happens that’s where the crack ended up. If you get another one, think arch. Even flex through out the limbs. Please don’t think I’m criticizing your work, just adding suggestions. Also try to round the edges off smooth and remove the deeper tool marks before bending her too much. You may have, I just couldn’t tell from the pics.
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Tiller was really even. Notice how flat the upper limbs were. Meaning most of your bend was at the fades. Just so happens thatís where the crack ended up. If you get another one, think arch. Even flex through out the limbs. Please donít think Iím criticizing your work, just adding suggestions. Also try to round the edges off smooth and remove the deeper tool marks before bending her too much. You may have, I just couldnít tell from the pics.
Didn't take anything as criticism, I really appreciate you giving me information. Whole lot better learning from you than by my bad experiences.
I think I'll get some maple to try next, from what I read it holds up a little better and costs very little more.
Thanks again

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Old 06-01-2018, 09:45 PM   #28
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Around here maple is a little hard to find. I’d like to try it one time.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:22 PM   #29
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Around here maple is a little hard to find. Iíd like to try it one time.
I just let my lease go other side of Menard. Usually go through Llano a dozen times a year. Probably go through there a few times this year. If I do I'll bring you some maple 1 x 2's. That is if I can find something decent.

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Old 06-01-2018, 10:28 PM   #30
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I just let my lease go other side of Menard. Usually go through Llano a dozen times a year. Probably go through there a few times this year. If I do I'll bring you some maple 1 x 2's. That is if I can find something decent.

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Was there a few weeks ago. Wife got an offer at the hospital but she didn't find any place she liked. Not many homes for sale around there.

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Old 06-02-2018, 09:44 AM   #31
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Think circle ...it looks like you are ONLY bending in the fades and not hardly bending anywhere else...one trick is to take a pictire and then use a quarter as a guide..so scrape scrapescrape.check tiller ..take the pic and check that against the quarter..the limbs should follow the edge of the quarter ...clear as mid...and make a tillering gizmo (thats the name of it),, google that...that little tool will help.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:50 AM   #32
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And give yourself about 4 to 6 inches from the nocks to fades that are stiffer than the rest of the limb...always excercise the bow between scraping ..that will help keep string follow down slightly
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:50 AM   #33
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At the risk of sounding like a dumbs#:, what are the fades?
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Think circle ...it looks like you are ONLY bending in the fades and not hardly bending anywhere else...one trick is to take a pictire and then use a quarter as a guide..so scrape scrapescrape.check tiller ..take the pic and check that against the quarter..the limbs should follow the edge of the quarter ...clear as mid...and make a tillering gizmo (thats the name of it),, google that...that little tool will help.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:37 AM   #34
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At the risk of sounding like a dumbs#:, what are the fades?

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I mean it seems to me that the "fades " would be the taper. I tapered this one from the grip all the way to the ends.

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Old 06-02-2018, 11:56 AM   #35
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Where the riser fades into the limbs.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:12 PM   #36
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Zactly ^^^^ handle then where it "fades " into the the actual limb ...it looks like you are thinking that is where all the action of the bow happens ..so it looks like that is where you are concentrating on the bend..in reality ..the limb starts to bend in that area and progresses out towards the tips ..so..slight bend in fades then more so as you go out and then gradual slow down 4 to 6 inches from the actual nock
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:15 PM   #37
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There is a ton of info on youtube ...and many sites devoted to selfbows ..primitive archer comes to mind but there are many others.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:18 PM   #38
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The "taper" is the shape of the bow looking from the back and or belly ..the "fades is when your looking from the edge profile
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:25 AM   #39
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Ronnie if you want to shorten the learning curve spend some money and come do a bow build with me and leave with a Osage selfbow. If you put any backing on it it's not a selfbow. Yes do not pull past intended draw weight. Yes your outer limbs was to heavy. Oak board bows are want to be bows. Only good to practice tiller on. Set is caused by crushing of the belly fibers in the wood. Causing shock. excessive mass of any kind causes shock. Fades are the transition between handle area and limbs. I Started much just like you . If you are bit-by the bug find $600 and come see me. Or go to OJAM next march . By the time you buy the gas and a stave you could have done the bow build with me though. Good luck with your bow builds and most of all have fun doing it. Arvin

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Old 06-08-2018, 07:02 AM   #40
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Quote:
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...and make a tillering gizmo (thats the name of it),, google that...that little tool will help.
I agree, that is why I suggested it earlier. We didn't call it a "gizmo" back in PA but I like that. It really works when new to building bows. Some people have a hard time seeing a bend vs a flat spot. Using that takes the guess work out.
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:50 AM   #41
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Quote:
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Ronnie if you want to shorten the learning curve spend some money and come do a bow build with me and leave with a Osage selfbow. If you put any backing on it it's not a selfbow. Yes do not pull past intended draw weight. Yes your outer limbs was to heavy. Oak board bows are want to be bows. Only good to practice tiller on. Set is caused by crushing of the belly fibers in the wood. Causing shock. excessive mass of any kind causes shock. Fades are the transition between handle area and limbs. I Started much just like you . If you are bit-by the bug find $600 and come see me. Or go to OJAM next march . By the time you buy the gas and a stave you could have done the bow build with me though. Good luck with your bow builds and most of all have fun doing it. Arvin
, and if the staves from jim in Mo. its worth it....
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:35 AM   #42
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Selfbowman, did I meet you at the Shoot-Out? A man there told me about OJAM, was gonna meet him there but I lost my phone and his number.

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Old 06-08-2018, 03:25 PM   #43
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What shoot out? Pm me your phone and we can talk. Arvin
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:46 PM   #44
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Quote:
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What shoot out? Pm me your phone and we can talk. Arvin


Vanderpool!!!! DUH!!!!

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Old 06-09-2018, 03:38 AM   #45
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Could have I went to vanderpool. Thanks Bisch. Mr know it all! Lol
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