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Old 05-31-2018, 10:58 AM   #1
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Default School Safety Plan. Thoughts?

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/05...plan-gun-laws/
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:42 AM   #2
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Im not seeing one thing in there that would of prevented this shooting or any of the recent past ones. Just politicians politicking.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:01 PM   #3
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Im not seeing one thing in there that would of prevented this shooting or any of the recent past ones. Just politicians politicking.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:02 PM   #4
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Im not seeing one thing in there that would of prevented this shooting or any of the recent past ones. Just politicians politicking.
Hardening schools and adding more armed guards or allowing teachers to carry wouldn't / couldn't have helped in any of the recent shootings?
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:43 PM   #5
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Hardening schools and adding more armed guards or allowing teachers to carry wouldn't / couldn't have helped in any of the recent shootings?
Could of yes. Would of no.

Now metal detectors with armed LE IMO would of prevented a kid from bringing a shotgun hidden under a trench coat into the school. We do this at banks, courthouses, airports, concert venues, night clubs, etc.........

I don't buy the then the bottle neck will be attacked argument. It could but like in all the examples above it rarely happens. Armed LE using standard behavioral analysis techniques used by DHS in airports/train stations/sea port terminals works just fine.
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Old 05-31-2018, 02:20 PM   #6
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Knowing that there were more armed guards and/or teachers in the school could've and probably would've prevented several of these shootings. Knowing that the school is a gun-free sitting duck zone is a big reason why these psychopaths choose to commit their violent acts at the school rather than somewhere else that's more likely to have armed people around.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:29 PM   #7
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Im not seeing one thing in there that would of prevented this shooting or any of the recent past ones. Just politicians politicking.
..and they are GREAT at it!!!!
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:18 AM   #8
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..and they are GREAT at it!!!!





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Old 06-01-2018, 12:17 PM   #9
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Knowing that there were more armed guards and/or teachers in the school could've and probably would've prevented several of these shootings. Knowing that the school is a gun-free sitting duck zone is a big reason why these psychopaths choose to commit their violent acts at the school rather than somewhere else that's more likely to have armed people around.
This.
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:46 PM   #10
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Knowing that there were more armed guards and/or teachers in the school could've and probably would've prevented several of these shootings. Knowing that the school is a gun-free sitting duck zone is a big reason why these psychopaths choose to commit their violent acts at the school rather than somewhere else that's more likely to have armed people around.


The problem with this is they wont know teachers are armed. In the article they condition that carrying teachers will be anonymous. It does not give the visual presence of a hard target by arming teachers.


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Old 06-01-2018, 12:52 PM   #11
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The problem with this is they wont know teachers are armed. In the article they condition that carrying teachers will be anonymous. It does not give the visual presence of a hard target by arming teachers.


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They won't know "which" teachers are armed, but they will know there are armed teachers on campus.
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:58 PM   #12
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They won't know "which" teachers are armed, but they will know there are armed teachers on campus.
Yes......have big fuggin signs out front, on every door and entrance and school bus!

But I agree with J, an armed leo is much more of a visual deterrent ....but all options should be on the table.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:01 PM   #13
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Yes......have big fuggin signs out front, on every door and entrance and school bus!

But I agree with J, an armed leo is much more of a visual deterrent ....but all options should be on the table.
Some anti-opencarry peeps...think a visual armed guard would be less of a deterrent because hes now targetable...
as opposed to not knowing who's carrying...
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:23 PM   #14
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The problem with this is they wont know teachers are armed. In the article they condition that carrying teachers will be anonymous. It does not give the visual presence of a hard target by arming teachers.


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Students will figure out which teachers are carrying in less than a week.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:25 PM   #15
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The problem with this is they wont know teachers are armed. In the article they condition that carrying teachers will be anonymous. It does not give the visual presence of a hard target by arming teachers.


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They won't know specifically which teachers are armed. They'll know that there are armed teachers at the school. That makes it even more of a deterrent. They have to assume that any teacher at the school could be armed.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:38 PM   #16
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Students will figure out which teachers are carrying in less than a week.
They might find out who could be carrying..but they wont know everyone...or when...
as opposed to an armed guard posted somewhere.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:27 PM   #17
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I think one of the biggest issues with this subject is denial. We refuse to add the manner of security to our schools needed because we refuse to accept that the society in which we live in has become so effed up and or godless. We dont want to admit that things are so bad now we need men with guns at the entrances to our schools. Lots of them. At a minimum like entering a courthouse. Someone who wants to go out in a storm of bullets will still enter a school that isnt locked down by armed men and kill multiple children before a single resource officer or multiple armed teachers respond. Ive been in the business of securing areas of all manner. Reactionary is the last way you want to get started in an active shooter scenario. Green zone/Red zone. There is nothing else.


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Old 06-01-2018, 09:02 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by J Sweet View Post
I think one of the biggest issues with this subject is denial. We refuse to add the manner of security to our schools needed because we refuse to accept that the society in which we live in has become so effed up and or godless. We dont want to admit that things are so bad now we need men with guns at the entrances to our schools. Lots of them. At a minimum like entering a courthouse. Someone who wants to go out in a storm of bullets will still enter a school that isnt locked down by armed men and kill multiple children before a single resource officer or multiple armed teachers respond. Ive been in the business of securing areas of all manner. Reactionary is the last way you want to get started in an active shooter scenario. Green zone/Red zone. There is nothing else.


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No. The biggest issue is guns. You haven't been paying attention.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:08 PM   #19
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Texas Governor Unveils Plan For Armed Veterans In Schools

https://www.weaselzippers.us/386778-...ns-in-schools/
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:59 PM   #20
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Preventing them outright is a fantasy. Mitigating the amount of bloodshed is as simple as removing the restrictions for lawful concealed carry.
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:04 PM   #21
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Someone please do the legwork and post some facts. Number of schools in America starting as far back as possible and how many school shootings each year.

Problem may be that in 1960-1990 if a kid brought a gun to school and shot just one or two people it may not have been recorded. And very possible if no one died it wouldn't be reported back then.

But still would be nice to see the data.
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:19 PM   #22
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...umn/349380002/
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:54 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by J Sweet View Post
I think one of the biggest issues with this subject is denial. We refuse to add the manner of security to our schools needed because we refuse to accept that the society in which we live in has become so effed up and or godless. We dont want to admit that things are so bad now we need men with guns at the entrances to our schools. Lots of them. At a minimum like entering a courthouse. Someone who wants to go out in a storm of bullets will still enter a school that isnt locked down by armed men and kill multiple children before a single resource officer or multiple armed teachers respond. Ive been in the business of securing areas of all manner. Reactionary is the last way you want to get started in an active shooter scenario. Green zone/Red zone. There is nothing else.


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I agree with you.

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Old 06-05-2018, 05:18 AM   #24
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The problem with this is they wont know teachers are armed. In the article they condition that carrying teachers will be anonymous. It does not give the visual presence of a hard target by arming teachers.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuck View Post
They won't know "which" teachers are armed, but they will know there are armed teachers on campus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Students will figure out which teachers are carrying in less than a week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by systemnt View Post
They might find out who could be carrying..but they wont know everyone...or when...
as opposed to an armed guard posted somewhere.

Schools are like prisons
Inmates know everything about the guards personal lives

How will the kids not know which teachers are carrying?
Will teachers not be made to go through metal detectors?

You say some teachers only carry "some" of the time.
What good is that?
If you only have 40teachers in your school and only 3-4 are licensed to carry, how hard is it for me to figure out which teacher will be carrying on a given day?

These suicidal kids are not dumb.
They spend months planning these attacks.

And if you have four teachers leaving a pep rally shooting at a couple Trenchcoat Mafia members in the hallway I guarantee you there will be friendly fire fatalities.
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Old 06-05-2018, 06:26 AM   #25
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This could backfire..
As crazy as it sounds I'm thinking that some of these deranged kids will see these armed guards and armed teachers as a bigger challenge and the number of shootings go up...
I hope I'm wrong but the way some of these hoodlums think these days it wouldn't surprise me not one bit... There is no one solution to solving this monstrosity of a mess...
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:26 AM   #26
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Could of yes. Would of no.

Now metal detectors with armed LE IMO would of prevented a kid from bringing a shotgun hidden under a trench coat into the school. We do this at banks, courthouses, airports, concert venues, night clubs, etc.........

.
The arming of banks is to protect the money, NOT HUMANS
That's why the money is behind 3 foot thick walls in a vault and humans are (sometimes) behind 3 inches of plastic.

Courthouses?
Brian Nichols in Atlanta
Tim McVeigh in OKC

Airports?
Didn't workers just get caught funneling drugs and guns on planes from Dallas to citiesall across the country?

Concerts?
Vegas.

Nightclubs?
Orlando.

Jails?
Cellphones and other contraband are all throughout prisoner cells.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:45 AM   #27
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The arming of banks is to protect the money, NOT HUMANS
That's why the money is behind 3 foot thick walls in a vault and humans are (sometimes) behind 3 inches of plastic.

Courthouses?
Brian Nichols in Atlanta
Tim McVeigh in OKC

Airports?
Didn't workers just get caught funneling drugs and guns on planes from Dallas to citiesall across the country?

Concerts?
Vegas.

Nightclubs?
Orlando.

Jails?
Cellphones and other contraband are all throughout prisoner cells.
Your points are worth a thousanth of a percent as to the whole they represent.
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:20 AM   #28
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Your points are worth a thousanth of a percent as to the whole they represent.
So are yours.
LoL
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:19 AM   #29
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So are yours.
LoL
No literally. Do the math on yours. Im not insulting you, you bring up a couple or just one instance where it didn't work. Lets take the airport. Literally millions of people have been screened and no incidents took place at airports around the world while I was just away from the computer.
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Old 06-05-2018, 12:09 PM   #30
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No literally. Do the math on yours. Im not insulting you, you bring up a couple or just one instance where it didn't work. Lets take the airport. Literally millions of people have been screened and no incidents took place at airports around the world while I was just away from the computer.
How do cellphones get into PRISONS
Have you ever been to or driven by a prison?
See how "hardened" they are?

But yet, inmates have cell phones in their...
LoL CELLS

I guess that's like a car phone in a car, right?


You can screen kids all day long but they will just throw a gun over the back fence of the ball field and retrieve it later.

Maybe throw a gun on top of the school roof on Sunday then go retrieve it Monday morning to wreak havoc.
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Old 06-05-2018, 12:11 PM   #31
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Still waiting on your math
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Old 06-05-2018, 12:12 PM   #32
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Still waiting on your math
I ran out of fingers and toes.
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Old 06-05-2018, 12:13 PM   #33
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I ran out of fingers and toes.
That would be close. 20 digits right of the decimal point is close but you need to go a little bit further.
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:00 PM   #34
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How do cellphones get into PRISONS
Have you ever been to or driven by a prison?
See how "hardened" they are?

But yet, inmates have cell phones in their...
LoL CELLS

I guess that's like a car phone in a car, right?


You can screen kids all day long but they will just throw a gun over the back fence of the ball field and retrieve it later.

Maybe throw a gun on top of the school roof on Sunday then go retrieve it Monday morning to wreak havoc.
So are you saying do nothing to try and prevent anymore mass shootings at schools?
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:51 PM   #35
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This could backfire..
As crazy as it sounds I'm thinking that some of these deranged kids will see these armed guards and armed teachers as a bigger challenge and the number of shootings go up...
I hope I'm wrong but the way some of these hoodlums think these days it wouldn't surprise me not one bit... There is no one solution to solving this monstrosity of a mess...
Let us know, let the governor know, let the POTUS know as the ideas are rampant.... including Christ back in the public school system.
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Old 06-05-2018, 02:26 PM   #36
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Let us know, let the governor know, let the POTUS know as the ideas are rampant...……. including Christ back in the public school system.
Unfortunatley I believe that the we are past the point of fixing it..
The causes are too numerous and our own laws work against fixing some of what would need to be done and the rest of the issues are just un-fixable..

This problem resembles medical problems a person gets after abusing his or her body for years.. Eventually the body is destroyed to the point of not being able to be fixed... The only chance of survival is to keep the problems medicated.. Medicated because the real problems are so bad and so far advanced that it is impossible to fix them..

Last edited by ttaxidermy; 06-05-2018 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 06-05-2018, 02:46 PM   #37
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Let us know, let the governor know, let the POTUS know as the ideas are rampant.... including Christ back in the public school system.
You let Christ in, Muhammad will be right on His heels.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:02 PM   #38
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Unfortunatley I believe that the we are past the point of fixing it..
The causes are too numerous and our own laws work against fixing some of what would need to be done and the rest of the issues are just un-fixable..

This problem resembles medical problems a person gets after abusing his or her body for years.. Eventually the body is destroyed to the point of not being able to be fixed... The only chance of survival is to keep the problems medicated.. Medicated because the real problems are so bad and so far advanced that it is impossible to fix them..
Folks are blaming over medication as a huge part of this............some are saying NOT ENOUGH medication down the right throats. Dunno, it could be a huge boom for the pharma industry if that is one of the solutions.
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You let Christ in, Muhammad will be right on His heels.
Yep, but FREEDOM of religion is part of our constitution. I am sure Budha and Satan are not far behind that knowing young folks these days. I guess if Christians out numbered them things would stay in check.........or at least a balance which could result in a truce of understanding. Just thinking out loud, as i dont have the silver bullet (pun intended) but there is obviously something out of whack.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:18 PM   #39
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Here's what we have and I LIKE it.

I teach at a medium sized elementary @475 students
EVERY door is locked to prevent entry and has key card access.
The only door that remains open is one of the 4 main front doors, and the front foyer has been enclosed in plexiglass doors and windows. The 3 main hallways radiating out from the front foyer have double doors and you either have to be buzzed in by the secretary or use your key card.

the secretary's area is protected with metal mesh reinforced glass and she has a small port in the glass that people can talk through.

emergency exit is not hindered in any way, and the locked doors in NO WAY create any bottlenecks because they are only locked from the outside.

The entire staff have been trained in the A.L.I.C.E method of active shooter whatever you want to call it, and we have drills once a quarter.

Should all teachers be armed? No way.
Should teachers who wish to carry and become certified in some way or be required to show proof of training be allowed to carry? Yes.
I would gladly carry and kill the bad guy if it meant my little ones get to go home safe.

Teachers willingly put their lives out there in active shooter situations to protect the lives of our children. The least we can do as a society is allow them to use whatever means necessary to keep our kids safe.

When we did our ALICE training, the local PD had us all do a Code red lockdown, and lock our doors and huddle in the corner (typical lockdown). They then simply unlocked the door, walked in with a nerf gun and shot all of us. My question to the PD was, "yeah, but what if one of us was armed and shot back at you?" Even he admitted that it would have likely stopped the shooting.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:49 PM   #40
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Here's what we have and I LIKE it.

I teach at a medium sized elementary @475 students
EVERY door is locked to prevent entry and has key card access.
The only door that remains open is one of the 4 main front doors, and the front foyer has been enclosed in plexiglass doors and windows. The 3 main hallways radiating out from the front foyer have double doors and you either have to be buzzed in by the secretary or use your key card.

the secretary's area is protected with metal mesh reinforced glass and she has a small port in the glass that people can talk through.

emergency exit is not hindered in any way, and the locked doors in NO WAY create any bottlenecks because they are only locked from the outside.

The entire staff have been trained in the A.L.I.C.E method of active shooter whatever you want to call it, and we have drills once a quarter.

Should all teachers be armed? No way.
Should teachers who wish to carry and become certified in some way or be required to show proof of training be allowed to carry? Yes.
I would gladly carry and kill the bad guy if it meant my little ones get to go home safe.

Teachers willingly put their lives out there in active shooter situations to protect the lives of our children. The least we can do as a society is allow them to use whatever means necessary to keep our kids safe.

When we did our ALICE training, the local PD had us all do a Code red lockdown, and lock our doors and huddle in the corner (typical lockdown). They then simply unlocked the door, walked in with a nerf gun and shot all of us. My question to the PD was, "yeah, but what if one of us was armed and shot back at you?" Even he admitted that it would have likely stopped the shooting.
I like all of what you said. What point did the PD have in teaching that lesson? If an unlocked door is unlocked you can get through it? No **** Sherlock.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:53 PM   #41
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I like all of what you said. What point did the PD have in teaching that lesson? If an unlocked door is unlocked you can get through it? No **** Sherlock.


Door was locked

But he got the keys from the office.

Point. Locking the door does nothing. They trained us to block the door with everything in the room. Exit out the window.

My computer lab opens out.
So Im basically screwed.
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Old 06-05-2018, 04:12 PM   #42
texansfan
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Originally Posted by BuckySWT View Post
Here's what we have and I LIKE it.

I teach at a medium sized elementary @475 students
EVERY door is locked to prevent entry and has key card access.
Some high schools in Houston have more than 4,750 students
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Old 06-05-2018, 06:02 PM   #43
J Sweet
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Some high schools in Houston have more than 4,750 students


Thats a big part of the problem


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 06-05-2018, 06:06 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckySWT View Post
Door was locked

But he got the keys from the office.

Point. Locking the door does nothing. They trained us to block the door with everything in the room. Exit out the window.

My computer lab opens out.
So Im basically screwed.
mag locks
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Old 06-05-2018, 06:33 PM   #45
Charles
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mag locks
Magpul magazines locked & loaded
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:14 PM   #46
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Quote:
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Magpul magazines locked & loaded


Bingo!
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:15 PM   #47
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"‘This stuff is blatantly obvious. You’ve got to fix this,"

Retired Secret Service agent had warned Stoneman Douglas about security failures

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/br...605-story.html
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:53 PM   #48
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I saw where the Swiss had a school shooting 50 years ago and armed it's teachers. They've only had two since then with teachers killing both perps - tried to Bing it but the libs are burying everything that doesn't suit the tards. You know EVERY household is required to have an assault weapon yet nobody steals their Dad's and brings it to school - Wonder Why Not! LOL!
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:18 PM   #49
BuckySWT
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Originally Posted by chopsknives View Post
I saw where the Swiss had a school shooting 50 years ago and armed it's teachers. They've only had two since then with teachers killing both perps - tried to Bing it but the libs are burying everything that doesn't suit the tards. You know EVERY household is required to have an assault weapon yet nobody steals their Dad's and brings it to school - Wonder Why Not! LOL!


The Swiss also have village shooting competitions.

How cool would that be.
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