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Old 06-05-2017, 04:42 PM   #1
DRT
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Default Woodsman Broadheads

Any one here have experience with them? Bought two packs from 3Rivers. Going to see how the fly. Not super sharp out of the package but hopefully I can remedy that.

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Old 06-05-2017, 04:43 PM   #2
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They are awesome heads
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Old 06-05-2017, 04:44 PM   #3
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They are awesome heads
That's the kind of feedback I wanna hear.

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Old 06-05-2017, 05:20 PM   #4
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Mine fly real well and are easy to sharpen. However, the tip will curl on you if you hit something hard. It helps if you put a pyramid point on them, but I have totaled a few when they hit a rock.
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:26 PM   #5
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Not a fan. First thing to do is take the needle point angle down to a pyramid shape, the needle is too fragile for bone hits. Due to the blade angles they won't get as shaving sharp as a good 2 blade.
These are the glue on, or with the aluminum adapter. If you get the one piece unvented version they are definitely an improvement, but still not as easy to get shaving sharp.
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:27 PM   #6
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These are the new all steel screw in version.

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Old 06-05-2017, 05:28 PM   #7
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Go to YouTube and type woodsman broadhead, the second video is a guy shooting one through a coconut. They look like good broadheads.
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:29 PM   #8
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I have two blade heads. I hate the blood trails with them.

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Old 06-05-2017, 05:34 PM   #9
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I have been shooting Woodsman "Elites" for several years now. Since I only pull 50lbs I was a little concerned about shooting a three blade, but I have had no problems with penetration. Here is how I sharpen them
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...hlight=Sharpen
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:08 PM   #10
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Jerp those are like the ones I got. If I can't get them with a fine Arkansas stone I will try that.

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Old 06-05-2017, 10:22 PM   #11
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The new all steel screw in versions are call "Woodsman Elites'.
They are made by VPA, and you won't find many better, or as good for that matter.
They are easy to sharpen too.

Follow the instructions in this video, and you can sharpen them up real good, quick, and easy. https://youtu.be/VU_n71Fx7MY

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Old 06-05-2017, 10:32 PM   #12
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These are the ones.

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Old 06-05-2017, 10:56 PM   #13
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Man Rick I think they should come out okay with a diamond stone followed up with an Arkansas stone. I've done some work with one on the diamond and it's pretty dang sharp so far.

If I have to use a file to get a broadhead usable right out of the pack I don't think I would buy them more than once. But there was another guy did the same thing. Do you lose much weight on the head doing that?

And you didn't sound hick. Old school maybe. Not hick.
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Old 06-05-2017, 11:07 PM   #14
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Haven't tried the elites, have used a lot of the older glue-one, take the needle point down, I had much better luck getting them scary sharp by dragging them across a 12" file to get the cutting edge evened up, take out all the tool marks, bumps, and low spots. After that they'd get sharp enough to cut your eyeball if you looked to hard, only penetration issues were with bone and shield grisle on pigs, those 3 blades didn't like bone most of the time.
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Old 06-05-2017, 11:11 PM   #15
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B a s t a r d, mill, what cut?
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:27 AM   #16
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Light pressure on a belt sander and hone is what I did when I shot them. Just keep the temp down
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:19 AM   #17
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I like the woodsman elites

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Old 06-06-2017, 06:19 AM   #18
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To me they look like elongated Montec G5 heads. I love the design but if this head was 1/4 shorter in length and ad that steel to the width I'd like them better. I quit the Montecs because of the tiny holes they leave.
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
B a s t a r d, mill, what cut?
Not sure of the cut, but 3Rivers has the Grobet USA in 3 different lengths, and they work great.

Rick
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:28 AM   #20
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I shot them when the Wensels still made them. They fly well and made nice holes.
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:30 AM   #21
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I shot the VPA 3 blades for a while and they're similar. To get them sharp I marked the edges with a sharpie, then pushed them back and forth across a coarse diamond stone with fairly heavy pressure until I removed the ink and had the edge set. The I just pushed them across one way counting the strokes like sharpening a knife until I could feel they were sharp. Then I finished them up on a diamond stone. I killed that fallow doe at Big Oak with one and it did good.
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:29 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
If I have to use a file to get a broadhead usable right out of the pack I don't think I would buy them more than once. But there was another guy did the same thing. Do you lose much weight on the head doing that?
All I use to sharpen my Zwickeys is a file. I strop the burr off with a leather belt and they are plenty sharp. It is the only broadhead I have used and they have done plenty of killing.

When I get my Zwickey's out of the package, they run about 178gr and putting a better edge and and getting rid of the concave nature of the edge, I take off about 6-8 grains. The determining factor on how much you lose will be how flat the edge is when it comes out of the package.
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:31 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
I have two blade heads. I hate the blood trails with them.

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Just for my own knowledge here. I thought that a two blade cut-on-contact broadhead was the best option for traditional shooters. At least that's what I've read.

No offense intended.

Richard.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkers88 View Post
Just for my own knowledge here. I thought that a two blade cut-on-contact broadhead was the best option for traditional shooters. At least that's what I've read.

No offense intended.

Richard.
You are right that a two-blade will theoretically give you the best penetration. A lot of trad guys won't shoot anything else and they are especially recommended for lower draw weight bows. Some (like me) think you get a considerably better blood trail with a cut-on-contact three blade. Opinions vary on minimum poundage necessary to get adequate penetration with a three blade but I have not had a problem killing deer and pigs with them and I pull only 50lbs. (It might be a problem if I was shooting a really huge pig) Another reason I like them is that they are very easy to sharpen.

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Old 06-06-2017, 12:26 PM   #25
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I would rather have a hole than a slit. Now if the two blade say had an inch and half or more cutting width it would be better.

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Old 06-06-2017, 02:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkers88 View Post
Just for my own knowledge here. I thought that a two blade cut-on-contact broadhead was the best option for traditional shooters. At least that's what I've read.

No offense intended.

Richard.
Gary is saying he doesn't like them because of the blood trail. In theory, you should get a better blood trail the more you can open up the wound channel.

Imagine standing next to an above ground pool. If you put one small slit.. it will leak. Make a cross slit and watch it open and water will pour out faster.

3 blades also just give you another blade cutting up stuff as it passes through. Of course, on the flip side, that tree blade has more surface area drag, is harder to deflect through a rib, etc. So depending on poundage, you might not be able to get and entry and exit hole. In my opinion, having both holes is important too. 2 holes means you have 2 areas for blood to come out. This is especially true if you are shooting from an elevated position.

Good blood trails are important for recovering game that just doesn't fall within sight. A good blood trail can help narrow down a search significantly.

My personal opinion/experience though is that good blood trails, first and foremost, come from good shots, regardless of small differences in broad head design. I have used the same broad head for the last 3 years and have killed a few critters with them. I have had some really outstanding blood trails. I have also had some not so great blood trails. On the not so great blood trails, the hits have usually been high lung hits with both holes above mid body. When this happens... the lungs deflate and the blood pools inside the cavity and the critter gives up very little blood to the ground except where it finally fell. The shots that gave great blood trails were lung or heart shots where at least one hole was in the lower 1/3 of the animal and most especially near the armpit. Here, the blood drains out through the lower hole and the front running leg aids in pumping it out onto the ground. In all those cases, the critters only ran 30-60 yards, but the amount of blood on the ground was more dependent of shot placement than anything else.

I have thought about trying out the 3 blade designs. I have also thought about using the Simmons broadheads... but laziness and the fact that I have been fairly successful in recovering properly hit game.

I do have some friends that shoot compounds with some pretty impressive cutting broadheads (read 3 blade expandable) that have had some pretty good blood trails initially that made you think it was a great hit... but those trail turned out to be a dead end. Meaning that it helped the animal bleed more and longer... but it was still just a bleeding flesh wound.

My #1 rule is that you should give your broadhead the best chance it can on getting through an animal. In my mind that means a stout head with some steel behind the edge (not a fan of flimsy razor blade vented things.) It means a head with a 3:1 cutting angle and not much steeper. It must be able to be made sharp!

To the original question... the only thing I don't like about the broadhead is that it is vented.
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Old 06-06-2017, 02:09 PM   #27
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The thing I like about vented is non vented blades are generally easier to fold over. They are more likely to plane in flight although I don't know if at trad bow speeds that means anything. However they are quieter in flight.

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Old 06-06-2017, 02:10 PM   #28
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That said I have left some huge holes with awesome blood trails using Rage heads and their knock offs. Two blades just huge cuts.

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Old 06-06-2017, 02:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
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The thing I like about vented is non vented blades are generally easier to fold over.
Fold over? vs what? snapping? I have seen plenty bent/snapped vented blades than anything else. It is why I don't like them. I suppose the same kind of impact could fold a solid, but it is not like the vented survives any better. They are both equally trashed. And when it boils down to it, it is the edge that matters. I can mend a rolled edge on a solid head... I can't mend an broken vented head.

I still wonder about vents and the drag that comes from tissue lodging itself into the vent. Ask youself... why don't they have vented knives? Because when you slice through something, that something is still usually under compression and can fill in those voids. The trailing edge of that void is going to not always just easily pull apart what is being compressed into it... especially if the tail end is being torqued. Just something that always caught me as being odd when folks vent blades. I am pretty sure they do it mainly to shave weight... but I am no longer concerned with weight of my broadhead.
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Old 06-06-2017, 03:02 PM   #30
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The only advantage a 2 blade (might) have over a 3 blade is better penetration for lower energy bows, when the broadhead encounters a hard surface such as bone.

Other than that the 3 blade beats the two blade hands down if you have the energy to push it, and most hunting weight trad bows, with sufficient weight arrows do.

Here's a video illustration a 2 blade cut compared to a 3 blade cut. Should be an eye opener.

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I AGREE, PLAY EMBEDDED VIDEO


EDIT:
A single bevel 2 blade will improve upon the opening of the cut, but still not near as good as a 3 blade. The 3 blade won't kill any better, or quicker, but it provides a much better chance for a good blood trail.

Rick

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Old 06-06-2017, 03:15 PM   #31
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Thats why i will stick with a two blade with my setup. But i might try a head with small bleeders, like magnus stinger or the dirtnapgear drt's with bleeders.

May look into a three blade once i reach 50+ lbs
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Old 06-06-2017, 03:22 PM   #32
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By the way DRT.

The 3 blade broadhead I used in that video is the exact same length, and cutting diameter as the ones you have now. Getting a larger diameter 3 blade head isn't necessary.

Rick
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Old 06-06-2017, 04:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBarbee View Post
The only advantage a 2 blade (might) have over a 3 blade is better penetration for lower energy bows, when the broadhead encounters a hard surface such as bone.

Other than that the 3 blade beats the two blade hands down if you have the energy to push it, and most hunting weight trad bows, with sufficient weight arrows do.

Here's a video illustration a 2 blade cut compared to a 3 blade cut. Should be an eye opener.

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I AGREE, PLAY EMBEDDED VIDEO


EDIT:
A single bevel 2 blade will improve upon the opening of the cut, but still not near as good as a 3 blade. The 3 blade won't kill any better, or quicker, but it provides a much better chance for a good blood trail.

Rick
Great video Rick! I had not seen that before....

I shoot Woodsman and Snuffers....I have just always liked them. I am sharpening challenged and I am able to get them sharp easily. On the older Woodsman (from 10-12 yrs ago) they were pretty rough out of the pack and took some work to get the surfaces level. I used a belt sander to "grind" them into shape and get them evened out. Then used a 10" DMT Duosharp Fine/Coarse stone to finish them up...and as several have mentioned use a file to pyramid the point to keep it from curling...

I haven't used the newer version of the Woodsman, but I hear they are much better out of the package....
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Old 06-06-2017, 04:30 PM   #34
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Maybe but if I can get an inch and three eighths I will take that over an inch and one eighth.

I've killed a lot of animals with bows over the years. I've tried many different heads and styles of heads. I'll take a bigger cut any day. Especially on a marginal hit.

Trouble is I can't use a Rage head with a trad bow so I have to find the most adequate alternative.

I got three of them sharpened up and ready to hunt. Hopefully soon they can get a chance to draw blood.

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Old 06-06-2017, 04:38 PM   #35
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I definitely need to get a better sharpening system. My diamond stone is great for knives and did okay but all I had was a small Arkansas stone.

This obsession is expensive.

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Old 06-06-2017, 10:14 PM   #36
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Gary, withing reason, I'm a believer that the width/diameter of the wound is much less important than the depth of the wound.

As long as the exterior wounds are sufficient to allow good blood flow from the interior wound channel, then you are going to have a good blood trail.

A hole the size of your little finger, that is deep, or all the way through, and stays open will put a lot of blood on the ground.

Trust me, I've killed a ton of critters with 1-1/8" diameter 3blade heads (mostly pigs with thick fat/shields), and I always had great blood trails with them.

Rick
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:19 PM   #37
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I don't mind the smaller hole shooting from elevated positions where I get a low exit. I'm looking forward to trying these out. However Montecs come out of the package hunting sharp. Basically the same design. These heads could as well if the company wanted to.

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Old 06-06-2017, 10:21 PM   #38
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And just for the record a slice through the livery 2+" wide kills a deer quick and leaves a great blood trail. Something you won't get with this tiny head.
But at least it will be a hole not a slot.
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:38 PM   #39
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I killed over 30 pigs in 1.5 years with the VPA 3 blade 175gr 1-18" diameter cut. 19 of those with the same head & arrow, and 21 with the same head.

All except 5 or 6 of those were killed from the ground. All had great blood trails, and many of them died so quick, that a blood trail wasn't needed.

Here's a picture of just one of the many, that didn't go far. He crumpled, and never moved from the spot I shot him in.

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Old 06-06-2017, 10:43 PM   #40
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May be all for naught anyway. Since I picked job the traditional bows the pigs have not given me a chance.

I killed a bunch with Thunderheads and Montecs myself. They work. These should do fine.

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Old 06-06-2017, 10:45 PM   #41
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Take a good look at that hole.
It's the entry wound.

Although a blood trail wasn't needed here, I am certain there would have been a good one "IF" he had covered any ground.

Rick
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:47 PM   #42
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My point is - Don't worry about it. Those heads will do you good, and then some.

Rick
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:48 PM   #43
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I believe you.

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Old 06-06-2017, 10:49 PM   #44
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One of my favorite heads was the old 160gr Thunderhead.
They were much wider cut than these VPA's, but in all honesty, they didn't work any better than the VPA for killing, or blood trail.

Rick
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:50 PM   #45
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I know you believe me. I'm just trying to give/show you some examples to set your mind at ease.

Rick
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:25 PM   #46
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Lol.

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Old 06-07-2017, 09:15 AM   #47
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I have shot both and have more recently been shooting 2 blade tuffheads. Don't know if it makes any real difference in the recovery, but I like a pass through. If nothing else, they look cool. It really depends on what you hit inside them. I made a horrible shot on a hog last year with a two blade hitting him high and back. Arrow passed through and clipped the artery running along his back. I have never seen an animal spray so much blood. It reminded me of the old SNL skit "Big Red". Below is a picture of where he was standing when I shot him. A blind man could have followed the bloodtrail.

I think your bloodtrail really comes down to if you hit something high pressure like an artery or heart or lower pressure like a lung. Lower pressure needs a lower hole to drain. A gut shot or muscle shot is likely to stop bleeding regardless of the head used.





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Old 06-07-2017, 09:32 AM   #48
DRT
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I started with Satellite Mag 125s with an old Bear Whitetail 2. Well, technically I had an old Bear recurve with arrows that came with it and glue on two blades first but that didn't last long. Then I progressed to Thunderheads when they stopped making the satellite heads. Bear Razorheads were my choice for a while. Killed many animals with them but lost my confidence in some of the blood trails they left. Especially on fat, healthy animals. I really like solid, three blade heads. That's why I bought the Woodsmans. And honestly the older get the tougher it is to see blood plus our ranch is a frac sand meca so that hurts as well. I want a head I can keep sharp, that shoots well with my set up, that isn't $25+ each and I can find what I shoot. I hope these will do that for me.

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Old 06-07-2017, 10:14 AM   #49
RickBarbee
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Just for the heck of it, here's another kill where the animal didn't go anywhere after the shot.

This one was obviously shot from an elevated position.

In both instances of kills I have shown here, the arrow would have passed completely through the animal if not for striking ground before it could.

The boar in the first pictures I posted, instantly rolled at the shot onto his left shoulder, thus stopping the arrow when it hit the ground.

The little sow in this second set of pictures was just to low to the ground to allow a pass through.

Point is - Penetration isn't likely going to be a problem either.

Rick
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Last edited by RickBarbee; 06-07-2017 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:33 AM   #50
DRT
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I doubt it will either. I'm shooting whitetail, feral pigs and mabye an elk. Not cape buffalo or hippos.

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