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Old 05-31-2017, 06:35 PM   #51
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36x48 inch horse stall mat from tractor supply. I still need mine too. I have days when I can shoot like this at 20 plus yards. Then days when I have to be at 12 yards to shoot that well. Hang in there and shoot daily.

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Old 06-02-2017, 04:33 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Dry Bones View Post
LOTS of good info here, but remember if it works for you then keep going. Just some food for thought. I shoot a 51# @ my 27" draw longbow. My arrows are the GT 500 Nugent pinks (easy to find and I like the way they look). I have 100 grain brass inserts + 145 grain heads. Arrows are cut to 29". I have NO CLUE what the stupid numbers on the "calculator say" My arrows weighs in at 507 grain. My Broadheads actually weigh 20 grains more than the filed points and I notice "0" difference in flight.
-The reason I posted this is to just get your mind turning that you can really add up nose weight in carbon arrows. I do not neccessarily think it's mandatory as few things are. I honestly think a full length arrow flies VERY good set-up the same way. The pig in my avatar was killed with this set-up and most of the shaft was hanging out the backside.
Best of luck and welcome to the trad bow. :-)
This is the same route I took to build my arrows for my 62#@28" bow. I wanted the availability of 100/125gr points/heads so I can buy them off any retail shop if I was ever in a bind. Luckily, I have a short draw and with 3Rivers dynamic calc I can run 29.5" arrows with 100gr brass/100gr points and I'm well within tuning parameters... almost perfect even.

OP: Depending on what glue you used on your inserts, if they are already done, you can pop them out with a drill bit by inserting it from the nock end of the arrow and slinging it (just watch your walls... it WILL punch through drywall). 3Rivers has 100gr brass inserts that fit .244 Carbon Express PERFECTLY (I left a review on there when I installed them in my PileDrivers).

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Old 06-02-2017, 04:43 PM   #53
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I figured you probably ran down to bowzone during lunch. They are great folks, but know very little about trad and trad shooting.

I still went there for arrows for a while, but honestly, the lady who does their arrows kept cutting them wrong and I just eventually got the stuff to make up my own. It is cheaper in the long run too.

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This. Coming from a compound shooter converted to trad, the arrow dynamics are drastically different. Techs and shops that deal with mostly compound just don't know.

I found out the hard way myself trying to use my short 400 spine Gold Tip Velocity XTs with ~175gr up front, brass inserts (50gr) and points, and they were wayyyy too light (~400gr) and too short to tune well. Go as heavy as you can, the speed difference in shooting a lighter arrow in a traditional bow is really not a help AT ALL and increases noise and hand shock. My newly built 536gr 400 spine Pile Drivers are down right nasty accurate and fun to shoot. Go heavy or go home.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:07 PM   #54
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I pulled out the 500 spine arrows I got when I shot the Sage. Cut them to 28.5 and 175 grain heads and they fly perfect in my Widow drawing 50lbs @mdl. But Black Eagle arrows aren't listed on the calculator. They are heavier than my other 500 spine arrows which are cut at 27.5 to get the same flight.

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Old 06-02-2017, 10:42 PM   #55
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I almost hate to post this. I was given a dozen CE 250's a while back and I intended on making them for my 45lb Griz. I ran them through the 3rivers spine chart and went with it. Bare shafted them to tune, cut to 31.5", 100g brass insert, 150g point, 3 5" feathers fletched. They shot very very very well although they dropped out past 20yds quickly. I was told by my teacher at the time that the arrows I was shooting wouldn't ever be fast enough to hunt with so I took them apart and put the shafts in my "useless" box. They chrono'd at about 150fps. His take was if you aren't moving shafts at +200fps you have no business hunting. BS. That was almost a year ago and I'm looking at those shafts right now considering putting them back together. They shot GREAT for me.

My point is this. Get on 3Rivers Spine Calculator for a baseline. Load them with weight up front, shoot them bare and tune them to fit you and your form. No one can tell you how to or what to shoot. It either works for you or it doesn't.

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Old 06-02-2017, 11:19 PM   #56
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Old 06-03-2017, 07:16 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Junkers88 View Post
I almost hate to post this. I was given a dozen CE 250's a while back and I intended on making them for my 45lb Griz. I ran them through the 3rivers spine chart and went with it. Bare shafted them to tune, cut to 31.5", 100g brass insert, 150g point, 3 5" feathers fletched. They shot very very very well although they dropped out past 20yds quickly. I was told by my teacher at the time that the arrows I was shooting wouldn't ever be fast enough to hunt with so I took them apart and put the shafts in my "useless" box. They chrono'd at about 150fps. His take was if you aren't moving shafts at +200fps you have no business hunting. BS. That was almost a year ago and I'm looking at those shafts right now considering putting them back together. They shot GREAT for me.

My point is this. Get on 3Rivers Spine Calculator for a baseline. Load them with weight up front, shoot them bare and tune them to fit you and your form. No one can tell you how to or what to shoot. It either works for you or it doesn't.

Richard
Yes, but. For your draw, that bow is closer to 50. You have an inch more shaft (weaker) and alot more weight up front (weaker)... so those arrows were spined okay.

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Old 06-03-2017, 07:23 AM   #58
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This thread reminds why I am so fond of bareshaft tuning. It takes a lot of the guess work out of proper arrow length and spine your bow wants to shoot. I do use PinWheel Software for Archers to get me in the ballpark. But then I rely on my bareshaft results to fine tune it.
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Old 06-03-2017, 01:24 PM   #59
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Im going to put some more weight up front on the 250's and see where it gets me. I did ruin one of the feathers on one arrow so i'll strip it for bare shaft tuning.
Havent run it through a Chrono and dont really plan too. Wont shoot at game past 15-20 anyway if i can get consistent enough at those ranges. The way i figure, if i can kill a pig with it, i can deer hunt with it.


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Old 06-03-2017, 01:38 PM   #60
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Im going to put some more weight up front on the 250's and see where it gets me. I did ruin one of the feathers on one arrow so i'll strip it for bare shaft tuning.
Havent run it through a Chrono and dont really plan too. Wont shoot at game past 15-20 anyway if i can get consistent enough at those ranges. The way i figure, if i can kill a pig with it, i can deer hunt with it.


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Pig huntin is probably the best practice for deer huntin. The best thing about it is who cares if you miss. Good luck!
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Old 06-03-2017, 06:57 PM   #61
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Yes, but. For your draw, that bow is closer to 50. You have an inch more shaft (weaker) and alot more weight up front (weaker)... so those arrows were spined okay.

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Um, thanks?
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:42 PM   #62
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Um, thanks?
Umm you're welcome

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Old 06-05-2017, 04:27 PM   #63
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Am I the only one whos never had luck with the calculators?

Also what arrow weights you all running? From the shafts everyone is running they must be heavy! I shoot at full length easton aftermath 400 full length, with a 125 grain head (standard insert). Shooting a DX5 dalaa at 56 at 29, and they bare shaft perfect, with great broadhead flight.

They come in at 450ish grains and never had a problem on elk or hogs. Not the best if the only thing you want is penetration but by far the best for me overall. After tuning an arrow I shoot it and keep notes on the range, shooting at unknown yardage out to 45/50 yards. Thats how I end up with my arrows.

For me spines have come in on full length shafts (31.5 inch shafts, some come longer thats just the length of my aftermaths, so I run that length) with standard inserts 600 spine/30lbs range, 500 spine/ 40lbs range, 400 spine/ 50lbs range, 340spine/60lbs range. Now obviously if your start shortening them you'll drop a spine and if you start adding weight you'll go up a size. At least that been with my recurves at my 29 inch draw length.

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Old 06-05-2017, 04:49 PM   #64
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The ones for my 45lb bow weigh around 640g.

Richard.
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Old 06-05-2017, 04:51 PM   #65
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dear god!
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Old 06-05-2017, 04:55 PM   #66
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Seriously Richard? Do you use them for bow fishing?

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Old 06-05-2017, 04:57 PM   #67
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Bowfishing?
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Old 06-05-2017, 04:58 PM   #68
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Those are heavy.

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Old 06-05-2017, 04:59 PM   #69
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Bowfishing?
I meant to quote Junkers88

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Old 06-05-2017, 05:00 PM   #70
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lol I was like, man they gotta be spawning and backs out of the water with my hunting arrows. Mine would be like shooting a cork into the water.
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:02 PM   #71
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Weight may equal penetration but I like a little flatter trajectory. If I can get 185 to 195 fps out of a 50lb set up at my dl I'm happy.

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Old 06-05-2017, 05:08 PM   #72
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Same here, if I could shoot the same groups with more weight, I would. I just cant do it.

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Old 06-05-2017, 05:17 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by tradslam View Post
Am I the only one whos never had luck with the calculators?

Also what arrow weights you all running? From the shafts everyone is running they must be heavy! I shoot at full length easton aftermath 400 full length, with a 125 grain head (standard insert). Shooting a DX5 dalaa at 56 at 29, and they bare shaft perfect, with great broadhead flight.

They come in at 450ish grains and never had a problem on elk or hogs. Not the best if the only thing you want is penetration but by far the best for me overall. After tuning an arrow I shoot it and keep notes on the range, shooting at unknown yardage out to 45/50 yards. Thats how I end up with my arrows.

For me spines have come in on full length shafts (31.5 inch shafts, some come longer thats just the length of my aftermaths, so I run that length) with standard inserts 600 spine/30lbs range, 500 spine/ 40lbs range, 400 spine/ 50lbs range, 340spine/60lbs range. Now obviously if your start shortening them you'll drop a spine and if you start adding weight you'll go up a size. At least that been with my recurves at my 29 inch draw length.
Take your current tuned set up and enter it in the calculator. Now enter different numbers from 15 to -15 till your within 2 pounds. Then use that number with your calculator and all will come out better in the future.
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:21 PM   #74
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Isn't that like saying catch the fish them adjust the tare weight on the scale to make it weigh what you want?

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Old 06-05-2017, 05:27 PM   #75
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I was referring more to guys that are using it as a base to buy arrows.

I can't have arrows that aren't perfect, it will get in my head lol. I'll spend time spinning them, nock tuning and if they end up a little weak, or stiff they go on ebay. For me I need a specific arrow length and spine to keep me shooting a little longer distances.

Unless I do any big 5 stuff I'll probably shoot the same setup forever. They ended up balancing out to good for my style of shooting.
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:30 PM   #76
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I had to use the calculator to buy. Fortunately it's pdc for mine.

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Old 06-05-2017, 05:34 PM   #77
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Whats your DL?
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:03 PM   #78
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27

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Old 06-05-2017, 06:06 PM   #79
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That definitely gives you wiggle room.
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:09 PM   #80
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Lol. I'm flying by the seat of my pants much of the time. I guess I need that wiggle room.

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Old 06-05-2017, 06:30 PM   #81
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Sure makes tuning easier. I have a half and inch to chop off or buy new arrows or broadheads
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:30 PM   #82
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At 30" I got no wiggle
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:31 PM   #83
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The ones I was shooting before were under 400g and moving around 198fps but I got a little leary about shooting sub 10gpp out of the older bow so I added some weight to some different shafts. For me as a novice shooter I still like playing around with new weights and things. Keeps it fun.

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Old 06-06-2017, 09:17 AM   #84
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The ones I was shooting before were under 400g and moving around 198fps but I got a little leary about shooting sub 10gpp out of the older bow so I added some weight to some different shafts. For me as a novice shooter I still like playing around with new weights and things. Keeps it fun.

Richard.
After reading all the feedback on this thread, im getting grief after telling the wife my new arrows are obsolete and i need to start over
She doesnt understand how we like to tinker with our hunting gear because its never perfect
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:24 AM   #85
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I would rather have a set up I can shoot well and just duplicate. Not into playing with things. However, like finding a load and bullet that shoots well in a new rifle, sometimes you end up with a few partial boxes of bullets and cans of powder on the shelf that you have no more use for.

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Old 06-06-2017, 09:32 AM   #86
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Im at a point right now that i dont know if I am just not consistant enough yet, or if the setup i have is really that horrible. Thats the main reason i have yet to change anything. I have shots that hit my mark on the dot, then some that are 10-12 inches up/down/left/right. I would rather be consistently good or consistently bad. That way i know exactly what changes need to be made.

On the bright side, shooting every single day, my draw cycle seems to get easier each practice session.

I do need to go pickup a few tools and supplies though. I want to start collecting inserts, brass knock points and pliers, just general stuff needed for these bows.

DRT, where did you get your ruler to check your brace height with the clip on it?

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Old 06-06-2017, 09:49 AM   #87
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After reading all the feedback on this thread, im getting grief after telling the wife my new arrows are obsolete and i need to start over
She doesnt understand how we like to tinker with our hunting gear because its never perfect
I've been in that boat before! I've got several sets of arrows in the bin, one set of spine testers (Gold Tip Trads), and a tackle box full of bits and pieces. It just gets worse when I convince myself that I need another bow.

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Old 06-06-2017, 09:51 AM   #88
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I would rather have a set up I can shoot well and just duplicate. Not into playing with things. However, like finding a load and bullet that shoots well in a new rifle, sometimes you end up with a few partial boxes of bullets and cans of powder on the shelf that you have no more use for.

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I agree but I changed my set up as I felt the arrows were too light for an older bow with unknown lineage. I would just be sick if it developed any delamination.

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Old 06-06-2017, 10:18 AM   #89
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Just a bow square. Any archery shop or supply will have them. I've had that one probably a quarter century or more.

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Old 06-06-2017, 11:36 AM   #90
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Im at a point right now that i dont know if I am just not consistant enough yet, or if the setup i have is really that horrible. Thats the main reason i have yet to change anything. I have shots that hit my mark on the dot, then some that are 10-12 inches up/down/left/right. I would rather be consistently good or consistently bad. That way i know exactly what changes need to be made.

On the bright side, shooting every single day, my draw cycle seems to get easier each practice session.

I do need to go pickup a few tools and supplies though. I want to start collecting inserts, brass knock points and pliers, just general stuff needed for these bows.

DRT, where did you get your ruler to check your brace height with the clip on it?
Don't bother buying nocking points and pliers. Do a search on here on tying on nocking points.

You can buy a bow square at academy or any other archery shop. I bought mine from Bowzone for $5.
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:40 AM   #91
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Swamp you re probably right but I shoot an upper brass noc. I just recently tied an under noc that is holding together well and is staying together for the time being. Until I can do that consistently I'll use a brass noc on top because I can't afford for it to move.

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Old 06-06-2017, 12:10 PM   #92
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Don't bother buying nocking points and pliers. Do a search on here on tying on nocking points.

You can buy a bow square at academy or any other archery shop. I bought mine from Bowzone for $5.
I want to add a lower knock point to avoid my arrow slipping down the string during a shot. The serving looks good still as the knock clicks onto it well, just slips easy once applied.

is it a problem if my upper point is brass and lower serving string that i tied myself? I know it will look goofy, but im sure it'll work ok
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:12 PM   #93
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This is how mine is.

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Old 06-06-2017, 12:17 PM   #94
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I want to add a lower knock point to avoid my arrow slipping down the string during a shot. The serving looks good still as the knock clicks onto it well, just slips easy once applied.

is it a problem if my upper point is brass and lower serving string that i tied myself? I know it will look goofy, but im sure it'll work ok
No problem at all. As a beginner, it is probably best to start that way. Once you have confidence in what you did (a few days of shooting) take off the top brass nock and tie one on.

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Old 06-06-2017, 12:19 PM   #95
DRT
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That's my plan as well. Hope it will smooth and quiet my release some.

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Old 06-06-2017, 12:19 PM   #96
bloodstick
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I looked up a couple ways to tie them. In your experience, is it better to run the string through serving glue first before tying and using the lighter, or just tie it and put a drop of super glue or fletching glue?
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:30 PM   #97
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This last one I used serving material, used looped the over hand knots twice and when I got to the end tied a square knot that way and melted the tag ends.

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Old 06-06-2017, 12:32 PM   #98
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Floss didn't hold. Neither did two types of braided fishing line. However the double looped over hand knots and the fact I really pulled them tight may have helped too. Dunno. Only been a few days but it hasn't fallen apart or slipped yet.

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Old 06-06-2017, 12:35 PM   #99
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I'll drop by academy on my way home to pickup a square and serving string if they have them.
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Old 06-06-2017, 01:14 PM   #100
shortstroke 91
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Google a "nail knot" the dental floss will work with that one. It's the cleanest looking self tied on nock you'll get.

Rick Barbee has a video somewhere, that's how I learned.
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