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Old 06-06-2014, 10:44 PM   #151
elgato
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At the risk of over exposure here is another food plot experiment pic. This is a 9 acre plot I planted in arrow leaf several years back. I've wanted to convert it back to peas and beans but didnt really want to kill with herbicide. So I mowed it very short first of May then drilled cow peas and sunflowers in to the arrow leaf [ and rye thatch ]. As you can see the peas are starting to take hold quite well growing up thru the clover. I expect the clover to die shortly but in the mean time it has been an effective nurse crop protecting the young peas from annihilation by the deer.

THe peas hopefully are at a point where they will take off now and stay ahead of the deer till I plant small grains back to the field this fall. With our population seems it takes at least a 7-8 acre field for peas or beans to stand a chance. Next year I will try increasing the planting rate substantially above standard to see if that increases survivability.
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Old 06-07-2014, 07:20 AM   #152
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So when you mow the clovers in mid summer, do you mow after it dies back and come Sept , do you add any clover seed to the Rye seed you plant in the clover in late Sept.? And what type of Beans do you plant? I do Eagle but as you prob. know the Eagle Brand are great beans but not cheep when buying the seed at $88.00 per bag. I am ok with the price but wondering if you have found another bean that does as good, for a lower price? Thanks again
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:27 PM   #153
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For most of the clovers...arrow leaf, crimson, the white clovers, berseem etc...I find they last quite a few yrs. if managed right without needing additional plantings. I do replant the red clovers more frequently. After having planted various combos of rye, wheat, and oats one thing I have noticed is while the deer seem to equally graze all the small grains early once they have gone to seed they no longer eat the rye. So for fields where I'm going to leave the small grains standing thru the summer I'm going to go exclusively with wheat.Deer relish the wheat heads and birds, squirrels etc seem to like them better as well.

I like to have something growing in all the fields all the time. I have grown Eagle seed before and found it performed much like cow peas. Did good but a lot of the growth came on late after antler growth had completed . THey last till frost kills them which is generally too late for me to plant anything in the fall behind them.

To keep something growing year round the combo I'm liking best now is regular soybeans in the summer. THis yr. the beans I planted were half the price of cow peas thus even if needed to increase planting rate 50% to handle deer pressure you come out ahead. The soybeans go to bean by late summer when I plant rye, and various legumes behind them early fall.I have crimson essentially permanently established in all these fields and it coordinates really well. Usually some beans are left standing on the dead plants which are readily eaten. Also the fall planting process will germinate some of the beans which of course the deer love. THey die first frost.

I do not plant round up ready soybeans just regular schedule 4 [ i think] beans.
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:19 PM   #154
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Excellent information. Thanks for doing this thread.
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:58 AM   #155
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Yes,never worry about giving us too much on this thread, invaluable stuff here.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:33 PM   #156
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Learned something new today. Deer will eat the seed heads from elbon rye. I've not noticed it before where I've seen them relish the seed heads from wheat. While this pic isnt the best this is standing rye in a clover field I leave unmowed all summer. Most of the rye seed has been eaten. Will cause me to rethink my fall plantings.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:02 PM   #157
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Saw something on my evening drive looking at bucks that I have never seen before. A beaver grazing in a clover field. Yup, 100 yds from nearest water eating clover. Had my wife with me and no gun. Wrong combo. Needed gun and no wife but alas maybe another day. Beavers have their own ideas how to manage the water resources which generally doesnt coincide with mine.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:32 PM   #158
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Saw something on my evening drive looking at bucks that I have never seen before. A beaver grazing in a clover field. Yup, 100 yds from nearest water eating clover. Had my wife with me and no gun. Wrong combo. Needed gun and no wife but alas maybe another day. Beavers have their own ideas how to manage the water resources which generally doesnt coincide with mine.
Driving around the farm with no gun? Hmmmm.....What are the bucks looking like? Any growth over there on the bayou?
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:14 AM   #159
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Ok, lets talk about the beans, I have had Eagle Beans last till fall also, and I disked them in, to plant the Rye. So did I understand, you planted Rye in standing Beans? Do u think I could just spread in Rye seed to my beans and let the fall rain push the seed into the ground? You have a no till, but I do not have access to one, the Rye is one of the easiest to plant. Thanks for letting me think out load, and bouncing things off you
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:18 AM   #160
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Bucks looking stout! Have to pace myself cause it's too early to get so excited I cant sleep at night. But have seen some that appear sure to be giants. Couple of observations. I'm seeing more deer on the clover than the beans or peas. Deer are starting to get on the vetch even though it's only 3-4" tall. And all the deer are hammering the protein pellets all day long. THis even with more crops growing than they could ever eat. Might be the molasses in the feed. Considering the quality of our feed I'm good with that. Just grin and bear it and keep the feeders full for the next 60 days.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:24 AM   #161
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Ok, lets talk about the beans, I have had Eagle Beans last till fall also, and I disked them in, to plant the Rye. So did I understand, you planted Rye in standing Beans? Do u think I could just spread in Rye seed to my beans and let the fall rain push the seed into the ground? You have a no till, but I do not have access to one, the Rye is one of the easiest to plant. Thanks for letting me think out load, and bouncing things off you
Yes I plant the rye combo directly in to the standing beans. I plant conventional beans which have dried out by the time for fall planting. But yes I think you could broadcast rye in to the standing Eagle beans and with rain get germination. May need to plant a little heavier seeding rate.

If you want to take a tour of the farm someday come on down and I'll show you around.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:28 AM   #162
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Awesome thread.
thanks for sharing
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:03 PM   #163
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thanks for the invitation, I may just take u up on that.
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Old 06-14-2014, 01:38 PM   #164
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Thank you for your very informative thread. I have a 400 acre place in ETX where the soil has more sand. I plant the same winter cultivars as you are doing, summer I have used Alyce, to dry for vetch to do well. Vetch was the summer plant of choice when I lived in FL.

This year have planted mix in some fields of brown top millet and Alyce in an attempt to increase overall dove numbers on the ranch. Additional fields in milo and Alyce, so far all seems to be doing very well. Thanks again, for your thread.
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Old 06-15-2014, 11:39 AM   #165
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In the never ending quest to stop coons from robbing protein we first tried the pvc sleeves all the way down the legs of the feeders. That didnt work. SO we tried cutting off a bottom section as you see in the photo. Also as you can see in the photo that didnt work. I'm going to cut another section to see if that makes a difference.

I know there are feeders designed to keep coons out but I havent wanted to spend the $ to replace all my feeders. So I keep trying things to coon proof what I have. Sharks teeth, tar, grease ,fly bait....Nothing yet. What I'm sure of is that non target specie waste of protein is material and there is a real payback if it can be accomplished.
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:17 PM   #166
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Good luck on that Rusty.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:09 PM   #167
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Enjoying this thread!
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:12 PM   #168
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Can't say enough good things about dukes dog proof traps. I caught five last night out of eight traps but as big as your place is. You could run 60 traps year round. You are correct though. It's a never ending battle kill 50 and 75 will take their place.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:28 PM   #169
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I am learning very quickly that feeding corn and protein year round isn't enough to grow big bucks.

It requires time, dedication, passion, knowledge and the most important part "heart".
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:27 PM   #170
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Here is the latest scheme to thwart the coons. Wrapped roof flashing from top of spout to bottom of feeder. No place for a coon to sit. Camera is out and if this works will set up shop and do all the feeders.

Would love to take credit for this idea but actually another TBH er gave me the idea by using a 5 gal bucket on top of his feeders. Green screen to the rescue

Feeding 1 1/2 tons a week now so anything to slow coons down is considered.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:45 PM   #171
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Quote:
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Here is the latest scheme to thwart the coons. Wrapped roof flashing from top of spout to bottom of feeder. No place for a coon to sit. Camera is out and if this works will set up shop and do all the feeders.

Would love to take credit for this idea but actually another TBH er gave me the idea by using a 5 gal bucket on top of his feeders. Green screen to the rescue

Feeding 1 1/2 tons a week now so anything to slow coons down is considered.
Can't wait to see the results!! I have a coon problem in Mexico!! I need a solution ASAP. Keep me posted.....
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:34 PM   #172
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Can't wait to see the results!! I have a coon problem in Mexico!! I need a solution ASAP. Keep me posted.....
golden malrin
will kill all coons and varmits, deer wont touch it
mix it with coke

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...-fly-bait-1-lb
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:22 PM   #173
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golden malrin
will kill all coons and varmits, deer wont touch it
mix it with coke

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...-fly-bait-1-lb
It will also kill everything that eats those dead coons and varmits. Buzzards, Coyotes, Hawks, Hogs, etc. It is some bad stuff. I wouldn't suggest using it for anything other than flys.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:43 PM   #174
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Very familiar with golden malarin. Been fighting the battle with that for several years. Hard to win. My strategy is to 'coon proof' the feeders to solve the problem. The coons then can live on nuts and berries!
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:12 AM   #175
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This is just awesome! I've learned so much just on reading alone! Keep up the awesome work my friend!!!
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:34 AM   #176
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Subscribed...
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Old 06-19-2014, 01:04 PM   #177
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Very interesting and informative thread, thanks and keep it coming!
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:27 PM   #178
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it will also kill everything that eats those dead coons and varmits. Buzzards, coyotes, hawks, hogs, etc. It is some bad stuff. I wouldn't suggest using it for anything other than flys.
well that all sounds good to me lol
i always had a guy remove the bodies the next day and put them in the ground. Trust me i was scared that the deer would get in it but they never did. If you want to be safe and can be there everyday then i would use the dog proof coon trap. We have had great results with that when we were there. But nothing comes close to the golden malrin in wiping out the population quickly.
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:20 PM   #179
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Elgato, what part of La is your place ? My families properties are in Avoyelles, Bienville and Jackson parishes. Really enjoyed catching up and reading your thread
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:34 PM   #180
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^^^ Central La. Rapides parish. Glad you enjoy.
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:43 PM   #181
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My wife and I were out on a cocktail safari this evening and I caught a solid 3 second glimpse with binoculars of a buck I call lopsided running from a feeder. He looked GIANT! Last year he was a 210" 5 yr old 10 pt. Still looked like a 10 pt. so far this yr. Huge frame. His shed is the 101" one I showed earlier in this thread.

IF he grows out as big or bigger as last yr. he may make my hit list this yr. I'll confess that I have never shot a top end trophy off the farm so it will be quite special to take such a magnificent whitetail in my back yard. Nonetheless very special to have such great native deer strutting around for our pleasure.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:32 PM   #182
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If he looks Big Now I would Bet he will Be Huge in Two Months.....Good Luck To Ya Rusty
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:09 PM   #183
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Can't wait to see a pic of that freak
Great thread elgato
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:05 PM   #184
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It's a hot lazy Sunday afternoon in La. so I thought I would write a bit about the history of deer management on the farm.

For decades my neighbor and I managed for trophy deer using widely accepted conventional tactics . We had 2 or 3% of our property in food plots growing both summer and winter crops. We practiced annual timber stand improvement to increase the value of the timber as well as enhance the habitat for wildlife. We aggressively shot does, culled 'inferior' bucks and tried to let bucks mature. The herd was below carrying capacity according to traditional beliefs.

Nonetheless despite our passion, attention, experience and desire we rarely consistently grew mature bucks much less trophy bucks. It was as if all our management efforts resembled pouring water thru a colander. In spite of having over 2500 acres between us many of our yearling bucks were dispersing off the farm and over time many of the bucks we were trying so hard to grow would take a walkabout off the farm and get shot. Trophy bucks were rare to non existent.

Then one day I was riding around the farm with my wife when she asked a eureka question... " What fun is it to work so hard trying to grow deer and when you ride around you hardly ever see any? " Hmmmmm Brilliant woman. Got me to thinking. So we changed strategies in the neighborhood.

We increased our food plot acreage to over 10% of the property and got very aggressive with nutrition.We doubled down on protein feeders and enhanced the quality of our feed. We stopped shooting does for a couple of years to let the herd increase. Then spent 4 yrs. building a game fence around the entirety of the 2500 acres...very challenging considering the nature of the terrain. That was 4 yrs. ago and the deer herd today bears no resemblance to what we had for so many years before.

Today we are still well below carrying capacity though the herd has more than doubled in size. We retain all the bucks we grow and have many mature trophies including some giants. We ride around in the summer enjoying watching velvet bucks and the hunting is a blast. To be sure it is as challenging as ever. Hunting a specific buck is extremely challenging and there are bucks I have never seen with my eyes despite being on the farm almost everyday. However the difference is on a typical day you will see bucks almost every time including some big ones. My wife is right...once again. That is a lot more fun!

Growing trophy bucks is a numbers game. Only a small % of mature bucks will be trophies and an even smaller number giants. So it takes high recruitment of bucks annually to ensure an opportunity for the rare extraordinary ones. That means you have to have enough does to ensure high recruitment. Thus the more the better as long as you can ensure nutrition in the 100% 365 days a year every year of a deers life.

So today we are still doing all the things we historically did. We have just amplified it to more deer and have the opportunity to fully realize the complete extent of our efforts.And the results have been amazing.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:11 AM   #185
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very cool. Sounds like a dream. Truly a blessed property and a blessed deer herd. I wonder what your deer per acre ratio is. I have never seen any of your food plots destroyed, so I know you are feeding them well.

Also, good luck this year. I hope it is the year you harvest a buck off your hitlist.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:51 PM   #186
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You are doing things right, my friend!! Love your management tips, but more importantly I just love listening!! You're living all of our dreams......Keep up the good work!
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:47 AM   #187
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Thanks again, I am learning from your experience and that is less costly ( my dollars and my time) than learning from my experience I am working with a much smaller property, but with the same ideas apply. I look forward to reading your day on the farm
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:27 PM   #188
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The portal to paradise! My home and more importantly my vegetable garden are outside the game fence. So to avoid having to open a gate countless times a day I built this 'cattle guard' that deer cant/wont cross.

14'x14'. Never have seen a deer cross it though there are plenty in the neighborhood. This entry is about 200 yds. from my door. I plant the first 1/2 mile of the road you can see there with everything imaginable so we start seeing deer immediately. The females get quite used to the traffic thus fairly mellow. Mellow does...rutting bucks...fun combo!
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Old 06-28-2014, 10:19 PM   #189
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The portal to paradise! My home and more importantly my vegetable garden are outside the game fence. So to avoid having to open a gate countless times a day I built this 'cattle guard' that deer cant/wont cross.

14'x14'. Never have seen a deer cross it though there are plenty in the neighborhood. This entry is about 200 yds. from my door. I plant the first 1/2 mile of the road you can see there with everything imaginable so we start seeing deer immediately. The females get quite used to the traffic thus fairly mellow. Mellow does...rutting bucks...fun combo!
Too cool!!!! I think that gates needs a Phillips sign hanging from it!
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Old 06-29-2014, 07:31 AM   #190
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Really like your place, how is the garden doing?
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:09 PM   #191
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I know it's not even July yet and I normally dont start cameras till first of August. But I thought I would share some pics of bucks we are seeing as I scout around. I saw this one Thursday afternoon at 8:15 pm and ran 500 yds to get closer and watch. He still has a lot of growing to do but nonetheless took my breath. Last yr he was a main frame 10 w 7 kickers scoring about 195. I think he will soar past 200 this yr.
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:13 PM   #192
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No doubt 200" +

That is exceptional considering it's still June
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:31 PM   #193
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Following this one.
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:58 PM   #194
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Quote:
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I know it's not even July yet and I normally dont start cameras till first of August. But I thought I would share some pics of bucks we are seeing as I scout around. I saw this one Thursday afternoon at 8:15 pm and ran 500 yds to get closer and watch. He still has a lot of growing to do but nonetheless took my breath. Last yr he was a main frame 10 w 7 kickers scoring about 195. I think he will soar past 200 this yr.
Do you have imported genetics or are they all native?
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Old 06-29-2014, 02:05 PM   #195
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All native homegrown bucks. Never have done DMP, TTT, or any introduction of any kind. THe central theme I hope to convey with this thread is what [ and how ] can happen if you keep nutrition at 100% 365 days a year for many years. I believe the deer in the photo to be a 5 yr old.
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Old 06-29-2014, 03:17 PM   #196
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That's a STUD!!!
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:54 PM   #197
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Wow.
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:56 PM   #198
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He's got it all!!
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:02 PM   #199
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Always happy to show off garden. Right now I have carrots, every pepper imaginable, every kind of tomato imaginable 5 different kinds of squashes, pole beans, bush beans,beets, kale, chard, collards, 2 different kinds of egg plant,cucumber, and an asparagus bed. Keep the garden year round and makes substantial portion of our diet. Wife also has a giant herb garden.

Off to pick blue berries now. Farm living!!!
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:12 PM   #200
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^^^ Central La. Rapides parish. Glad you enjoy.
Right where I grew up and killed many critters.
Just about anything will grow in that dirt.
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