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Old 11-10-2009, 06:36 PM   #1
N.TX.HUNTER
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Default illegal buck at hagerman

does anyone know what happend to the guy that shot the 11 3/4 in buck
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:39 PM   #2
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Really? I didn't hear about it..wonder what they did to him!?
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:40 PM   #3
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Why would you shoot a small buck at the "H"?
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:54 PM   #4
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to say you shot a buck at Hagerman!! Why would any one do it any other place? Wonder how this is gonna play out.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:55 PM   #5
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A hefty fine i'm thinkin he shall recieve!
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:01 PM   #6
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And I bet he is never allowed to hunt there again.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:07 PM   #7
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i think he got to finish the hunt i was just wondering if he got fined and how much
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:58 PM   #8
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I asked kevin out there yesterday and he told me the fine is from $25 to $250 i think but they let him keep the deer and i think it was just a small fine by the way they talked.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:00 PM   #9
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Are we talking 4pt yearling or something more mature and substantial with heavy bases?
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:01 PM   #10
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I don't see why it should be any different than shooting an illegal buck anywhere else, just the normal fine
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:10 PM   #11
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Hagerman is not a trophy hunt. At least as far as the USF&W is concerned...
But laws are laws and if some hunter shot an illegal deer then h/she should face the consequences. At least he/she had the balls to admit it.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCB View Post
Hagerman is not a trophy hunt. At least as far as the USF&W is concerned...
But laws are laws and if some hunter shot an illegal deer then h/she should face the consequences. At least he/she had the balls to admit it.
Good way of putting it.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:18 PM   #13
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he was a nice guy i talked to him for awhile and i could understand why he did it the deer was pretty heavy horned just not wide enough on his left side he was outside the ear but on the right he was just inside.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:28 PM   #14
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Can be very hard to tell sometimes.......sounds like the H handled the situation properly........
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:31 PM   #15
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My uncle shot a 12" 10 point this weekend. We wanted to be honest so we called our local game warden and reported it. She told him that as long as the horns were outside the ears ( which they were even with the edge of the ear) not to worry that they were not measuring them. this is in liberty county.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:39 PM   #16
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Any pictures of this buck? It might help educate people.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:47 PM   #17
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I saw the deer in the back of his truck the night before and it looked like it was only about 12". I was out there the next day. Someone said he was fined $800 but was able to keep his equipment and deer.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:01 PM   #18
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I know he got a ticket. I believe he hunts in Cass County which has been under antler restrictions for several years. He should have known better, and antler restrictions were also covered in the Saturday morning meeting. Hagerman is not necessarily a trophy only place, but they discourage taking of young bucks and try to impress the quality of buck you may see right after shooting an immature buck. They suggest not shooting a buck unless he is bigger than anything you've ever shot before.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:36 PM   #19
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Oops. My finger slipped!
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:12 PM   #20
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Maybe that WAS bigger than anything he has ever shot before?? It can be hard for inexperienced hunters to field judge a deers antlers sometimes and a little buck fever can add to that issue.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:49 PM   #21
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Guy should be treated the same as anyone else , anywhere else in the state under AR.

Nothing more severe, nothing less severe.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:59 PM   #22
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I guess it might be different on Type II land but I was told that the state restitution for an illegal buck started at 1250. From there it was so much an inch. A guy in Franklin county shot a 147 last year and didn't tag it and the resitution was almost 5k. Thats not counting the fines.
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Old 11-11-2009, 07:57 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbuster View Post
I guess it might be different on Type II land but I was told that the state restitution for an illegal buck started at 1250. From there it was so much an inch. A guy in Franklin county shot a 147 last year and didn't tag it and the resitution was almost 5k. Thats not counting the fines.


Wonder what he was thinking? Did he even have a license?
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:06 AM   #24
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I could be wrong, but I was under the impresion that Hagerman was Federal, and if so it does not have to be the same. It would be under Federal law, not state. At least thats what I thought ????? Anyone
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:07 AM   #25
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I feel bad for the guy......
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:37 PM   #26
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I talked to the hunter for quite a lengthy time over the weekend hunt as he was hunting near me, even helped me on friday carry in my stand.
This was bigger than any deer he had hanging on the wall @ home. He told me he learned alot from this mistake, not only judging deer @ 40yds, but also his effective range of shooting on a live animal. He did the right thing bringing in and tagging the deer. G/W was not going to give him a citation but Refuge person was adamant he receive one. Had the G/W call his supervisor and he told the G/W yes, write the ticket. He did get to keep the deer and keep hunting. I beleive from what he told me the G/W will go befor the J/P to testify when the time comes for him to pay fine on the circumstances of the deer. The Refuge Manager told me She would NOT have let them write the ticket if she would have been there on Saturday night. This is the words the Hunter told me, and yes he is a member of this forum.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLowry View Post


Wonder what he was thinking? Did he even have a license?
Not at first. To show you just how stupid this guy was: He shot the deer while checking his cows on opening morning of rifle season. He then decided to take pics of the deer with his phone and send them to his buddies. I guess he got nervous so he decides to go buy a hunting license that day. 3 days later word gets around to the GW so he decides to go have a look at the deer. Guy tells him the story (changing the part about buying the license after he shot the deer). GW tells him congrats and starts to leave then stops and says let me see your license before I go. Dummy didn't even tag it.
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:14 PM   #28
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Hi Guys,

I issued the ticket (State charge)and just want to set the record straight since there are several posts with mis-information.

First of all...the hunter is a standup guy and did the right thing by tagging and bringing the animal in to the check station. He just made a poor decission at the time the shot was taken.

Here are the facts:
-Hunter was a veteran bowhunter
-he hunts in an AR county that has had restriction for several years
-spred was 11 1/4" (note: it did have some mass)
-Hagerman staff aged the buck at 1 1/2 yrs old
-field dressed weight was 85 lbs.
-I let my Supv make the call which was to cite if it was a young deer.
-No fine has been set yet but I did explaine to the JP that it didn't warrant a max fine. Fine range is $25-$500
-No Civil restitution filed

Myths:

Hagerman officals insisted on citation
$800 fine
Manager wouldn't have let me issue the citation...I saw the Refuge Mgr and she didn't mention the incident much less tell me not to issue citation.

As I mentioned before, the hunter was a nice guy. I commend him on the fact that after he made a poor first shot, he went to great lenghts to get a second shot and recover the buck and bring it into the check station. Some hunters might have left it in the woods. This guy was a MAN and took responsibilty for his actions. That said I still have a responsibily to the resource.

One of the things the hunter told me was that he was grateful that none of the other hunter in the segment ridiculed or belittled him and that the officers were professional.

I know I don't have to explain myself but I wanted to get the facts out before posters start hammering the guy. He feels bad enough as it is.

Good Luck the rest of the season...and may your arrows fly true!
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:25 PM   #29
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Dale, thanks for setting the record straight and for cutting the hunter some slack.

Last edited by Burnadell; 11-14-2009 at 02:33 PM..
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:30 PM   #30
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Dale, thank you for clearing it up.....
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:37 PM   #31
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it takes a real MAN to fess up when you done something wrong,
and believe me we all make mistakes, glad he did the right thing and it was handled with such respect!
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Old 11-14-2009, 08:52 PM   #32
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he made a mistake we all do
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GW2210 View Post
Hi Guys,

I issued the ticket (State charge)and just want to set the record straight since there are several posts with mis-information.
Thanks for setting things straight. "He said, she said" discussions rarely get it right.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:18 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GW2210 View Post
Hi Guys,

I issued the ticket (State charge)and just want to set the record straight since there are several posts with mis-information.

First of all...the hunter is a standup guy and did the right thing by tagging and bringing the animal in to the check station. He just made a poor decission at the time the shot was taken.

Here are the facts:
-Hunter was a veteran bowhunter
-he hunts in an AR county that has had restriction for several years
-spred was 11 1/4" (note: it did have some mass)
-Hagerman staff aged the buck at 1 1/2 yrs old
-field dressed weight was 85 lbs.
-I let my Supv make the call which was to cite if it was a young deer.
-No fine has been set yet but I did explaine to the JP that it didn't warrant a max fine. Fine range is $25-$500
-No Civil restitution filed

Myths:

Hagerman officals insisted on citation
$800 fine
Manager wouldn't have let me issue the citation...I saw the Refuge Mgr and she didn't mention the incident much less tell me not to issue citation.

As I mentioned before, the hunter was a nice guy. I commend him on the fact that after he made a poor first shot, he went to great lenghts to get a second shot and recover the buck and bring it into the check station. Some hunters might have left it in the woods. This guy was a MAN and took responsibilty for his actions. That said I still have a responsibily to the resource.

One of the things the hunter told me was that he was grateful that none of the other hunter in the segment ridiculed or belittled him and that the officers were professional.

I know I don't have to explain myself but I wanted to get the facts out before posters start hammering the guy. He feels bad enough as it is.

Good Luck the rest of the season...and may your arrows fly true!
Thank you and we all make mistakes. I am glad he did the right thing to recover the deer instead of letting it go to waste. I hope everyone here would have done the samething.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:23 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GW2210 View Post
Hi Guys,
I know I don't have to explain myself but I wanted to get the facts out before posters start hammering the guy. He feels bad enough as it is.
Good Luck the rest of the season...and may your arrows fly true!
Always good to hear from you Dale! "Integrity is what one does when nobody is watching!!!" Glad to hear we still have great folks in our sport.....on both sides of the coin1
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:47 PM   #36
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great job man(who ever you are) for doing the right thing, accepting the consequences. You sound like the kind of guy I'd like to hunt with.
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Old 11-15-2009, 05:03 PM   #37
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Thanks Dale, for setting it straight. we all make mistakes and we pay for them and move on. Learning experience for all. And thanks to the Shooter for being honest.
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Old 11-15-2009, 06:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GW2210 View Post
Hi Guys,

I issued the ticket (State charge)and just want to set the record straight since there are several posts with mis-information.

First of all...the hunter is a standup guy and did the right thing by tagging and bringing the animal in to the check station. He just made a poor decission at the time the shot was taken.

Here are the facts:
-Hunter was a veteran bowhunter
-he hunts in an AR county that has had restriction for several years
-spred was 11 1/4" (note: it did have some mass)
-Hagerman staff aged the buck at 1 1/2 yrs old
-field dressed weight was 85 lbs.
-I let my Supv make the call which was to cite if it was a young deer.
-No fine has been set yet but I did explaine to the JP that it didn't warrant a max fine. Fine range is $25-$500
-No Civil restitution filed

Myths:

Hagerman officals insisted on citation
$800 fine
Manager wouldn't have let me issue the citation...I saw the Refuge Mgr and she didn't mention the incident much less tell me not to issue citation.

As I mentioned before, the hunter was a nice guy. I commend him on the fact that after he made a poor first shot, he went to great lenghts to get a second shot and recover the buck and bring it into the check station. Some hunters might have left it in the woods. This guy was a MAN and took responsibilty for his actions. That said I still have a responsibily to the resource.

One of the things the hunter told me was that he was grateful that none of the other hunter in the segment ridiculed or belittled him and that the officers were professional.

I know I don't have to explain myself but I wanted to get the facts out before posters start hammering the guy. He feels bad enough as it is.

Good Luck the rest of the season...and may your arrows fly true!

GOD forbid someone get a warning for an honest mistake that was reported by the hunter...
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Old 11-15-2009, 06:39 PM   #39
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God forbid a law enforcement officer... enforces the law.
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Old 11-15-2009, 06:46 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Bone View Post
God forbid a law enforcement officer... enforces the law.
Exactly what I was thinking Justin......
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Old 11-15-2009, 07:23 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
GOD forbid someone get a warning for an honest mistake that was reported by the hunter...
god forbid a person does what his boss has instructed him to do....
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:07 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crittergitter View Post
god forbid a person does what his boss has instructed him to do....
or what he was trained to do.....

Thanks, Dale!! Don't be such a stranger!
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:13 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crittergitter View Post
god forbid a person does what his boss has instructed him to do....
or what he was trained to do.....

Thanks, Dale!! Don't be such a stranger!
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:23 PM   #44
WCB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
GOD forbid someone get a warning for an honest mistake that was reported by the hunter...
I guess you missed the part about being an experienced bowhunter, 1 1/2 yrd old and a hunter from an AR county...
Whoever this hunter is I commend him for being an ethical hunter and he is welcome on my lease anytime

Remember guys and gals, if you "think" it's 13", don't shoot.
If you, "know" it's 13, shoot away...

Glad you clarified Dale.
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:38 PM   #45
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I understand mistakes can be made. But this is one I don't understand. If the deer is not obviously outside his ears don't shoot it in a antler restricted county.

For the record all though I like the principle of antler restrictions to get more deer to have better antlers by getting some age on them. I do not like the state telling people what they can and can not shoot. I would much rather see restrictions set in place by hunting lease or in this case a WMA not the state.

If a guy is happy shooting a buck with a spread under 13" so be it - having the state tell him it's wrong is just wrong IMHO.

Heck some deer live their whole lives with out reaching the min spread in these antler restricted counties. I wonder if anyone has been fined yet for shooting a buck that was mature 5.5/6.5 yes old yet did not meeting the minimum spread.
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:44 PM   #46
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I still have it out for the Texas Cyclone worker the first time I went to Astroworld when I was 6...

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Down with authority....Fight the Man!!!!



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Old 11-28-2009, 10:13 PM   #47
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WE are headed out there Dec4 for the hunt. I will ask about it ,and report back.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:30 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brushpopper View Post
WE are headed out there Dec4 for the hunt. I will ask about it ,and report back.


Brushpopper, no need to do that as we heard from the GW himself. This GW is one man the you can take his word to the bank and bank on it.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:37 PM   #49
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Everyone makes mistakes. What is done after the mistake shoes the true charactor of a person. Good Job who ever you are. Dale, thanks for tell us the story and backing the guy. Don't be a stranger around here.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:37 AM   #50
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Maybe we will get the shooters side of the story. It could educate others who end up in the same situation. Kudos for standing up to your mistake. Oh and did he know he was wrong when he recovered the animal or after he went to check in?
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