Time To Get Serious About CWD

[systemnt]

Ahh....that was STD and the sheep was purty.

ahh man..always get those mixed up...

[donpablo]

CWD Resitant

I remember reading an article a while back about researchers finding deer that were genetically resistant to CWD. I'm surprised I haven't heard more about it since. It would seem that breeding such deer and distribution of those genes would be something we should have started encouraging/implementing already.

[LukeDuke]

I am not someone to panic or by into sensationalism but I think this will be the end of hunting in Texas as we know it. Baiting, game ranches, breeding facilities, all of it will eventually have to go away...

On the other hand breeding facilities may be what saves the TX deer herd.

There are numerous captive controlled herds that have been tested for CWD for years...keeping those around would be an asset in the CWD battle for a number of reasons

[Longue Carabine]

It keeps getting brought up because the cross species to humans transmission of CWD does not exist, there has not been any proven chance that can happen.

In vitro it does transmit to human proteins. That, coupled with the fact that in can infect macaques in vivo, are more than enough to warrant concern.

But even if the element of human risk was removed from the equation, then the ecological, economic, and social elements are themselves enough to support this level of attention and caution. There is a lot at risk with this disease. I'll paint a picture of the prossible outcome with no infection of humans and no human intervention.
CWD will continue to spread (presently at a rate of 2 million acres per year). Unlike bacterial and viral diseases, it has no periods of remission. It simply continues spreading and does not lose ground. The longer it is in a given area, the more saturated that area becomes with infectious material (since cwd prions remain a risk in the environment for years after leaving the host via urine, feces, saliva, or their decomposing body), and the more physical contact there is between infected deer and uninfected deer. Over many decades, increasing percentages of susceptible populations become infected. Although 100% fatal on its own, cwd infected individuals are almost always killed first by predators, starvation, or weather due to their malnourished, weakened, and incoherent states. Numbers slowly but steadily continue to decrease over time. Hunting for big antlers would become a thing of the past because older males are the primary demographic of those affected. Bucks don't live to be old in heavily cwd saturated populations. Typically not beyond 3-4 at the most. And those infected while young cant support good antler growth anyway. It would take centuries, but eventually entire regions of cervids would be extirpated. But at some point in the distant future, evolution and selective pressure would produce populations that would likely be completely resistant. But in the meantime, entire ecosystems were dramatically affected by the decreased presence of cervids. Hunting cratered and with it the conservation proceeds it generates. This in turn may have likely resulted in the selling off of many public lands since they couldnt be financially supported. Support programs for other unrelated species would suffer dramatically as well, since deer hunting is the primary generator of hunting license sales, which funds support for all native species. All deer hunting business, both high fence and low, would suffer dramatic financial loss. And for those who think you can keep cwd out of a high fence . . . I have bad news. Unless you double high fence the whole perimeter it's not that hard for infected deer to spread it through the fence and vice versa. And I learned something new today. A study showed that house cats can contract cwd by oral consumption of infected central nervous system material. Which brings me to another point. The propensity displayed by cwd to alter configurations and create new strains that infect new species is higher than I thought. There are more than the 5 I mentioned yesterday it seems. That creates a concern about eventual livestock infection. So that may have a place in this future scenario as well.

The reason it is news is because it is pushed by people with an agenda.

And people with another agenda are trying to make CWD a big deal.
You want to know the truth? FOLLOW THE MONEY.

Yes, it deserves and needs to be studied and addressed but not the way the anti hunters, the anti high fence group and TPWD are doing it.
. . . all of the rash measures taken by some of the government entities is irresponsible.

There is more than enough concrete information at this point to justify both concern over this disease, and the actions that I am aware of that have been taken by TPWD and other agencies. There is no reason to try to superimpose "hidden agendas" as the reason why, when the strength of the scientific reasons is more than capable of standing alone. From what I have seen all over forums and town hall meetings and person to person conversations, the source of objection between individuals opposing the actions of TPWD and other agencies has been that they don't understand the reasoning behind those actions. I can easily understand how someone could initially be in total opposition to some decisions made based on their immediate face value. Especially given that almost no one is familiar with the unusual circumstances and difficulties that CWD presents. But when you learn the complex details behind their reasoning, you may likely find yourself saying, "Wow I would never have imagined something like that. I can understand their line of reasoning now."

I took the time to address so many comments because I know a lot of people don't want to commit the time and energy to research this topic in depth. But, it is necessary that hunters become more well informed on this topic and stay up to date with developments. This issue is tied to the future of hunting, and we don't want any policies made, or opportunities missed due to inaccurate perceptions. If you're looking for a place to start, the podcast posted in this thread is great. So is the MeatEater podcast on cwd. I have no objections to what the biologist stated. He was careful not to say anything that wasn't well supported.

Until there is a realistic chance it is transmitted directly to humans by normal contact, consumption of the animals, consumption of the food the animals may contaminate (i.e. soybeans) through the prions living for eons in the soil and vegetation then all of the rash measures taken by some of the government entities is irresponsible.

There have been no findings to suggest that CWD has been in the soil for "eons," or even prior to 1967. The soil study previously mentioned in this thread has not been the only one. I have seen 4 and there may be more. Texas AM even did one as well. All those I read documented plants binding CWD prions from soil. So the possibility exists. The greater the density of infected individuals per unit area, the greater the statistical odds that another individual will contract the disease via that method.

I am still not going to stop hunting for food, but I am going to make sure any cervid I shoot is tested.

Just keep in mind they can be infectious for 18 months before testing positive.

I remember reading an article a while back about researchers finding deer that were genetically resistant to CWD. I'm surprised I haven't heard more about it since. It would seem that breeding such deer and distribution of those genes would be something we should have started encouraging/implementing already.

Some individuals in populations of elk and mule deer near the epicenter of the outbreak (Wyoming/Colorado) have begun to show the beginning stages of natural selection against CWD, and via a small addition to the end of one of their chromosomes have aquired some minute resistance to CWD in that it takes an additional year or two for them to die from the disease. While this initially seems like positive news, it also means that they end up spreading more infectious material, in greater density, to more areas, and therefore to more individuals due to the longer period of time they have the disease. And that resistance gene, per one study, still has no resistance to the H95+ strain.

[tx.biologist]

On the other hand breeding facilities may be what saves the TX deer herd.

There are numerous captive controlled herds that have been tested for CWD for years...keeping those around would be an asset in the CWD battle for a number of reasons

The genetic study is finding some deer resistance to CWD clincal synptoms. However the genotype prolongs the actual onset of the clinical synptoms or no clinical signs at all. So the deer is infected and is shedding the prions over a longer timeframe and greater distances to other animals.



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[bossbowman]

In vitro it does transmit to human proteins. That, coupled with the fact that in can infect macaques in vivo, are more than enough to warrant concern.

But even if the element of human risk was removed from the equation, then the ecological, economic, and social elements are themselves enough to support this level of attention and caution. There is a lot at risk with this disease. I'll paint a picture of the prossible outcome with no infection of humans and no human intervention.
CWD will continue to spread (presently at a rate of 2 million acres per year). Unlike bacterial and viral diseases, it has no periods of remission. It simply continues spreading and does not lose ground. The longer it is in a given area, the more saturated that area becomes with infectious material (since cwd prions remain a risk in the environment for years after leaving the host via urine, feces, saliva, or their decomposing body), and the more physical contact there is between infected deer and uninfected deer. Over many decades, increasing percentages of susceptible populations become infected. Although 100% fatal on its own, cwd infected individuals are almost always killed first by predators, starvation, or weather due to their malnourished, weakened, and incoherent states. Numbers slowly but steadily continue to decrease over time. Hunting for big antlers would become a thing of the past because older males are the primary demographic of those affected. Bucks don't live to be old in heavily cwd saturated populations. Typically not beyond 3-4 at the most. And those infected while young cant support good antler growth anyway. It would take centuries, but eventually entire regions of cervids would be extirpated. But at some point in the distant future, evolution and selective pressure would produce populations that would likely be completely resistant. But in the meantime, entire ecosystems were dramatically affected by the decreased presence of cervids. Hunting cratered and with it the conservation proceeds it generates. This in turn may have likely resulted in the selling off of many public lands since they couldnt be financially supported. Support programs for other unrelated species would suffer dramatically as well, since deer hunting is the primary generator of hunting license sales, which funds support for all native species. All deer hunting business, both high fence and low, would suffer dramatic financial loss. And for those who think you can keep cwd out of a high fence . . . I have bad news. Unless you double high fence the whole perimeter it's not that hard for infected deer to spread it through the fence and vice versa. And I learned something new today. A study showed that house cats can contract cwd by oral consumption of infected central nervous system material. Which brings me to another point. The propensity displayed by cwd to alter configurations and create new strains that infect new species is higher than I thought. There are more than the 5 I mentioned yesterday it seems. That creates a concern about eventual livestock infection. So that may have a place in this future scenario as well.






There is more than enough concrete information at this point to justify both concern over this disease, and the actions that I am aware of that have been taken by TPWD and other agencies. There is no reason to try to superimpose "hidden agendas" as the reason why, when the strength of the scientific reasons is more than capable of standing alone. From what I have seen all over forums and town hall meetings and person to person conversations, the source of objection between individuals opposing the actions of TPWD and other agencies has been that they don't understand the reasoning behind those actions. I can easily understand how someone could initially be in total opposition to some decisions made based on their immediate face value. Especially given that almost no one is familiar with the unusual circumstances and difficulties that CWD presents. But when you learn the complex details behind their reasoning, you may likely find yourself saying, "Wow I would never have imagined something like that. I can understand their line of reasoning now."

I took the time to address so many comments because I know a lot of people don't want to commit the time and energy to research this topic in depth. But, it is necessary that hunters become more well informed on this topic and stay up to date with developments. This issue is tied to the future of hunting, and we don't want any policies made, or opportunities missed due to inaccurate perceptions. If you're looking for a place to start, the podcast posted in this thread is great. So is the MeatEater podcast on cwd. I have no objections to what the biologist stated. He was careful not to say anything that wasn't well supported.



There have been no findings to suggest that CWD has been in the soil for "eons," or even prior to 1967. The soil study previously mentioned in this thread has not been the only one. I have seen 4 and there may be more. Texas AM even did one as well. All those I read documented plants binding CWD prions from soil. So the possibility exists. The greater the density of infected individuals per unit area, the greater the statistical odds that another individual will contract the disease via that method.



Just keep in mind they can be infectious for 18 months before testing positive.




Some individuals in populations of elk and mule deer near the epicenter of the outbreak (Wyoming/Colorado) have begun to show the beginning stages of natural selection against CWD, and via a small addition to the end of one of their chromosomes have aquired some minute resistance to CWD in that it takes an additional year or two for them to die from the disease. While this initially seems like positive news, it also means that they end up spreading more infectious material, in greater density, to more areas, and therefore to more individuals due to the longer period of time they have the disease. And that resistance gene, per one study, still has no resistance to the H95+ strain.

Well said sir

[wytex]

CWD cervids

I would just like to share some pics from the pens at the Wyoming research facility. Here are some cervids that will definitely die from CWD, all the elk in the pens eventually do.
Also some mule deer that share a common fence line with the research facility. I do not agree with your comments on antler development in CWD animals and endemic areas.

[Randallc]

Joe Rogans Podcast #1154 on 08/08/18 has some good information on CWD.

[wytex]

cwd mule deer

These bucks ranged in age at harvest from 4 1/2 to 8 1/2 years old. The property is right across the high fence that deer regularly move in and out of now, A new double fence is going up to prevent future dispersions. This one buck is still kicking. All were taken within 1 mile of the cwd research facility and in the heart of the endemic area. I have about 20 years worth of harvest pics, no decrease in trophy size and in fact mule deer numbers are up for us the last couple of years due to good snowpack and subsequent nice spring greenup and winter range conditions.

[wytex]

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-no-chronic-wasting-disease-transmissibility-macaques

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/tbed.12612

Strange this study found no transmission. As did the 10 year study done on cattle at the Sybille Research facility. Cattle penned for 10-12 years at various ages, I believe, and no positives or evidence of transmission to them. That study was recently released.

http://www.uwyo.edu/uw/news/2018/05/long-term-research-shows-domestic-cattle-resist-oral-exposure-to-chronic-wasting-disease.html

[Longue Carabine]

I would just like to share some pics from the pens at the Wyoming research facility. Here are some cervids that will definitely die from CWD, all the elk in the pens eventually do.
Also some mule deer that share a common fence line with the research facility. I do not agree with your comments on antler development in CWD animals and endemic areas.

Ok but there is some relevant information that's missing. At what age were these animals in the photo first infected? An elk infected at less than one year old and an elk infected at 3 years of age are different situations. Also, being in Wyoming, are these part part of the genetically resistant population? Lastly, I imagine being pen raised may be giving them an advantage over their wild counterparts

[bukkskin]

I would just like to share some pics from the pens at the Wyoming research facility. Here are some cervids that will definitely die from CWD, all the elk in the pens eventually do.
Also some mule deer that share a common fence line with the research facility. I do not agree with your comments on antler development in CWD animals and endemic areas.

Those are some good looking bulls wytex, especially that 8x8. Nice muleys too.
What do ya'll feed the elk?
Thanks for the pics.

[Aggie_bowtech]

Is it OK to hunt and eat all my deer from Bandera this year? I've been hunting there 15 years.

Haven't heard any results from this last year but know the one deer we brought in and had checked was A-OK


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[Texans42]

These research primates also got it from eating CWD positive venison, is it likely to transmit to humans, no but its possible. Do you take the chance, I would have to lean towards no for me and definite no to feeding it to my family.

Study hasnt been fully released yet. They also feed infected money brains to moneys..Papua New Guinea style.

Really until it’s been fully released and peer reviewed.. it’s not muvmch being it’s the second study, and first showed exact opposite. So it needs to be cross referenced

[bossbowman]

Is it OK to hunt and eat all my deer from Bandera this year? I've been hunting there 15 years.

Haven't heard any results from this last year but know the one deer we brought in and had checked was A-OK


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Most of the CWD containment zone is in Medina co., only a small part between Tarpley and Utopia is in Bandera county.