Deer was shot under 13"

[Bloodhound]

holy smokes.....NEVER.....not once in your life have you ever committed a game violation....then you didn't hunt much as a kid, bird hunt, and you don't fish at all

you've never gut hooked a 9" bass and returned it to the lake knowing it was going to die.....that's a violation....even my buddies that are GW's say that the fisherman is between a rock and a hard place on that one.....illegal if you keep the fish and illegal if you put it back....everyone throws them back taking the chance they don't get caught.....still laws are laws

It boils down to a difference in our values, Texag87. Willfully shooting an illegal buck is different than hooking an undersized fish. Let me explain... One can view the buck and judge his spread to be legal, questionable, or illegal. The wise thing to do is to shoot the obviously legal buck, or no buck at all. When fishing, anything can be hooked regardless of the ethics, intelligence, or expertise of the fisherman. Legally, you must release the doomed fish to be eaten by scavengers instead of yourself. If a GW cites you, you will win in court, I believe. However, that is besides the point.

Perhaps worse than the youth killing the illegal buck is the response from so many TBHers. As a group, we seem to disrespect GWs and the job they are tasked to do, and, at least this group, seems to set a poor example for youth hunters.

I regret that we do not set a better example for youth and for nonhunters. Remember, it is the nonhunters who will make or break the future of our sport, and we hunters hold one of the keys to wooing the nonhunters. When a hunter does the right thing, no one ever finds out. When a hunter/poacher does the wrong thing and he gets caught (which rarely occurs, I suspect) it makes the news and we get a black eye.

[texag87]

I've never received a game violation either......but I have messed up before......and one of my accidents was on a double and I was hunting with a GW

[Bloodhound]

Accidentally sent that last post prematurely. Just wanted to add... Let's all consider the potential consequences of our words and actions. This thread is troubling to me due to my high ethical standards. I will not knowingly violate a game or fish law. Did I always practice that ethic? No. Did I have anyone mentor me as a youth hunter? No. I had to learn on my own. If I have kids, will I teach them to have the highest of ethical standards? Yes. Let us all do this and let us preserve our sport for as long as possible.

I have to finish packing now. I am very late to leave for my next hunt. Wish me luck and stealth!!

[stinger]

I know a guy who killed a buck and it was almost 13", i mean very close maybe 1/8" off. This guy called the game warden to tell him what had happened. The game warden showed up measured the rack and gave the the guy a big fine. He probably thought since it was only off by 1/8 of an inch the GW would let him go since he called it in and told him about it. So if you are off alittle watch out cause they will fine you.

[wildaggie]

In the dove field, when there aren't many doves, kids want to shoot anything that flies over. Just because a plover looks like a dove, does it make it right when the kid shoots it?

In the turkey woods in the spring, kids want to shoot the hens if they walk in and the gobbler doesn't. But we don't let them, because they aren't legal in the spring.

Both of these scenarios teach ethics, and following the laws, especially if we take the time to explain the biology behind the laws. The same thing can be said for antler restrictions.

And, in most counties with ARs, does and spikes can also be taken. For a first deer, it doesn't matter if it's a doe or spike or 200" deer (as some have already stated on here), so let them thin the herd a bit with a doe and enjoy that experience, and learn a bit about management and hunting while they are out there.

If you just aren't sure if that buck is 13", let him go another year, and he'll probably be more than 13" next year. yes, there are a few exceptions, but not many. These ARs manage for the majority, and the majority of young bucks are less than 13". The majority of 3.5+ bucks are more than 13".

[txsteele]

The key is not to ruin a kids experience...let's face it, the future of hunting & fishing is with the children who show an interest & a gw should know this & act accordingly. My feeling is there should have been a heart to heart and explanation of the importance of the 13" rule while still keeping the young-uns spirits up & congrats for a kill. We are alking about 1/4" that is near impossible to judge on the hoof.

I wasn't there so I don't know if the gw had reason to believe adult was in another violation....the actions just seemed excessive for the described offense & could leave some kids disheartened over what should have been a very positive hunting experience and not to mention the importance of the gw role with us as hunters.


There is an old saying that you never get a second chance to make a 1st impression. Not sure a 2 hour hold and intense search is the way to stamp a kids memory over such a petty infraction.

1/4"

agreed.....got yo' back Artos

[texag87]

not a difference in values....I must have failed to see in the original post where it said they willingly shot a deer they knew wouldn't make 13 inches......if indeed that was the case then yes, write them up....since it didn't say that I assumed they made a mistake of a 1/4 inch which any of us could do

[stinger]

I also think the 13" rule is very affective, and glad it is being enforced. The rack size at our property has really jumped up in size and have had the 13" rule for 4 years know.
Kids should also use the 13" rule, it will help them practice the sport at a young age and not just to go out and shoot the first thing with horns that pops out.
Just my opinion.

[BassMaster13]

good thing he didn't give them a ticket.. heck i know guys make a 13 1/2 in bass 14 inches all the time.. its all about how you hold the tape.. lol

[Bloodhound]

not a difference in values....I must have failed to see in the original post where it said they willingly shot a deer they knew wouldn't make 13 inches......if indeed that was the case then yes, write them up....since it didn't say that I assumed they made a mistake of a 1/4 inch which any of us could do

Texag87, I again am compelled to suggest that you stick to the 24 inch spread for deer so that you don't kill or wound an illegal buck. I feel silly recommending this to some of you guys since we are all adults here. Nevertheless, it is better to pass on a buck that MAY be illegal than to shoot at him.

I did not imply that the youth knew he was shooting an illegal buck. When I said he willfully shot an illegal buck, I meant that his gun did not misfire, but instead he took aim and shot the illegal deer. Surely the boy did not know the deer was illegal. He surely hoped that the deer was legal. The adult in the scenario is culpable for not instilling a proper ethic in the boy. Hopefully the adult will man up and hunt cleaner from now on.

Remember guys... if it appears to be a 24 inch spread, you'll probably not be shooting at an illegal buck. I passed on a beauty 2 1/2 weeks ago that was inside the ears but probably grossed 110 inches. He was a legal buck, too. I guessed him to be 3 1/2 years old on public land, so I let him walk because of his age. That's just me. I did shoot his girlfriend, though.

[Bloodhound]

good thing he didn't give them a ticket.. heck i know guys make a 13 1/2 in bass 14 inches all the time.. its all about how you hold the tape.. lol

I hate to be disagreeable, Bass Master 13, but it's not how you hold the tape. No one be misled by this irresponsible statement. Read the regulations and you'll know how to measure fish. It is unambiguous.

Happy hunting & fishing guys & gals! I'm out the door to try to put the smack down on some serious game! Man I love to hunt!

[tpost]

thats why if in doubt you should never risk it....but i think that youth should be exempt from the rule

[Mayhem]

what ever happen to the benefit of the doubt

[bmac]

GW often let the youth have a little more slack b/c they don't want to ruin hunting or fishing for them for the rest of there lives. But they wont hesitate once you turn 17 or show negligence when they broke the law.

[day0082]

when i took my son to the hunters education class put on by tpwl , i ask that very question and they replied, the first year we will understand if its close, and give warnings, if it isnt even close we will give tickets.. the next year we will issue tickets..