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Has traditional archery become hypocritical?

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    #61
    Are you saying that technology has ruined "traditional" archery or just the attitude towards trad?

    I shot a Fred Bear recurve Take Down Magnum back in the early 70's. Magnesium handle and quick detach limbs and a stabilizer. It had sights and a raised shelf. Pretty modern for it's day. Never saw a wheel bow on the range back in those days. Most of the shooters at that club in San Antonio were strictly target shooters who enjoyed getting outside and developing their skills as an archer. They also enjoyed shooting competitions with each other. It formed a bond and comradeship among like minded people. Same as today.

    I have just recently gotten back into Trad shooting and hunting. I love the comradeship and bond that traditional archers have. Much more relaxed than those other archers.

    I really like your statement "learning to limit one's advantages through self-imposed restrictions in bows, arrows, aiming approaches and shooting distances."
    That does a good job of describing how I look at my journey in Trad.

    I believe this statement is totally false, "The new face of traditional archery became competition driven, a race to use whatever means available (without wheels of course) to mimic the very objectives that early traditional had specifically tried to avoid...success without limits."
    I have not seen any "race" in the traditional form of archery "to use whatever means available". If anything, I see traditionalist going backwards in technology as selfbows, custom wood bows and wood arrows become more popular.
    "Success without limits"? Huh??? You contradict yourself when earlier you stated, and I quote, "learning to limit one's advantages through self-imposed restrictions in bows, arrows, aiming approaches and shooting distances." (Still love that)

    I will compete this year in 3D tournaments at the Trad level for the same reason that I did when I shot a compound bow, to encourage myself to shoot more often and improve my skills for hunting. I'm only competing against myself. If I happen to score well enough to win, then fine, it isn't my goal. So far I have yet to see a Traditional archer obsessed with winning. They just seem to be having fun.
    Last edited by Geezy Rider; 12-31-2017, 09:28 AM.

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      #62
      Ok, I brought this topic up as food for thought and end-of-year reflection (it's winter here and 20 below zero..lot's of reflection time available). Talk and thoughtful conversation can be useful, constructive and even fun depending on how one perceives, interprets and responds. I'd suggest that anyone's opinion is no better or more important than another's, they are just points of view with no right-of-superiority attached or (hopefully) intended.

      So, if something I"ve said or implied above triggers an urge in you to react in a defensive, aggressive or insulting manner in your perception or response then by all means feel free to pass by this thread and get on with your day. Otherwise, I'd respectfully request that you keep it civil and on-point so that others may have more rational discussion.

      DRT, sorry for the long-windedness in my initial post, what I tried to say is that: 1.) I believe traditional archery is really about hunting, with simpler equipment and methods, that AVOIDS rather than invites technology as a means to it's desired end, while target shooting is PRIMARILY FOCUSED on competition using equipment and methods designed to make shooting and/or killing easier, without due respect payed to the original values associated with traditional. 2.) Target archery ideology has overshadowed and for the most part replaced the original concept of traditional, changing it to a technology-based concept to maximize efficiency/convenience; and 3.) To avoid confusing or losing the early values associated with traditional bowhunting, target archery should not be considered as part of traditional archery. Essentially, it is it's own type of archery and deserves to have it's own moniker or title.

      In my view these circumstances have NOTHING to do with one's personal like or dislike for one type of archery over the other (I shoot some competitive archery just like many others do so I'm not biased against those who do). It's really a logic question, one of recognizing the significant ROOT differences between the two archery categories, by giving each of them their own due.
      An old saying comes to mind when considering how to view traditional vs. target style...good fences make good neighbors.

      Agree or disagree, it's all just food for thought. After all it IS a new year coming, a good time to make some personal decisions/resolutions on how we look at things.
      Last edited by Retsbew; 12-31-2017, 10:56 AM.

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        #63
        It's obvious by your writing style that you are an educated man. Could it be that maybe you're putting a little too much thought into this.

        Or maybe I'm just not observant enough. I just haven't noticed these things that you speak of.

        I wonder if the other indians got crossways with the first guy that backed his bow with sinew and tipped his arrows with iron points. Dang technology.

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          #64
          Originally posted by Geezy Rider View Post
          It's obvious by your writing style that you are an educated man. Could it be that maybe you're putting a little too much thought into this.

          Or maybe I'm just not observant enough. I just haven't noticed these things that you speak of.

          I wonder if the other indians got crossways with the first guy that backed his bow with sinew and tipped his arrows with iron points. Dang technology.

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            #65
            This may or may not complicate this discussion, but, my contribution to the Trad archer and The Trad Way is a mechanical release device. WOW. There's paradox for you.

            First of all, my company, my product, and I are for the Trad way first and foremost. Secondly, forget everything you know or think you know about the popular releases of today. Thirdly, if my invention The Universal Natural Bowstring Release had have come
            out in the sixties, when the compounds were starting to be accepted, there wouldn't be such a variety of aids that you see today.

            I'm not "bad-mouthing" these devices, after all, they are the major reason that the sport of archery has grown so much (2016 ASA survey - 21,600,000 bowhumters in the US). That being said, they also have contributed towards the demise of the Trad Way, by the nature of their design and use. Best guesstimation of how many Trads are in that survey is 1/4 to 1/3, depending on who you talk to.

            Now, my contribution to Trad Archery is a device that is used as if the archer had no device in the shooting hand. It has no triggers, no thumb depressors, or, pinkie-pulls, and, there's no twisting or rotating of the device to execute the releasing of the bowstring. You just relax the fingers, just as the archery instructors teach, to avoid the unwanted "plucking" of the bowstring. "Release Tha' Release" See videos on my Facebook Page - Hart of Archery.

            My invention will give the Trad more time to work on "quality" practice time, and, most importantly provide for more arrows being shot, while having more fun.

            I'll be at The Vegas Shoot on February 8 thru 11, and if anyone from this site comes to my booth and greets me by saying, "Release Tha' Release", I'll give you a special discount off of the Natural Universal Bowstring Release and/or an arrowhead choker that I design, make, and sell.

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              #66
              How is me doing my best to be successful being anything but that? Just trying to be successful.

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                #67
                My last reply, and I'm out of this topic.

                I am a Traditional Archer, and a Traditional Bowhunter.
                Archer "First". Bowhunter "Second".

                Why archer first you ask?
                The answer is - "Because" I am a Traditional Bowhunter, I want to be as proficient with my equipment as I can possibly be "before" going after live game, and that mean lots of practice/shooting at non living targets I.E. "archery".

                All of my shooting revolves entirely around being prepared for the hunt.

                In my humble opinion, there are way to many folks who worry way to much about what they, or their equipment looks like, and not nearly enough about how well they can shoot that equipment.

                Traditional Archer/Traditional Bowhunter for life, regardless of what someone else thinks.

                Rick

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                  #68
                  Rick's mention of practicing archery to be the best traditional bowHUNTER possible reminds me of a competition event that strives to simulate this concept. In the International Bowhunter's Organization (IBO) Mid-America Traditional Competition -- held at my home club the Austin Archery Club -- a couple of years ago, there was a category labeled Traditional Hunter, I believe. Competitors could use any traditional bow -- recurve, longbow or selfbow -- but a key aspect called for using arrows that weighed at least 10 grains per pound of stated draw weight for one's bow. I also know that I always use my same hunting set-up (of heavy arrows) for all 3D shoots, as does Bisch on here and, I imagine others as well. Point is to try and simulate a little bit of pressure similar to a hunting shot via competition in shooting at foam animals' vitals for score instead of at real animals for meat. Like many sports, peer competition is part of it, but you're really shooting against yourself, trying to be the best you can be.

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                    #69
                    Most of the guys I know use the same setup for targets as they do for hunting, they just change out the points. I just have not seen much evidence of the "Target archery ideology has overshadowed and for the most part replaced the original concept of traditional, changing it to a technology-based concept to maximize efficiency/convenience".

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                      #70
                      Originally posted by Phillip Fields View Post
                      Most of the guys I know use the same setup for targets as they do for hunting, they just change out the points. I just have not seen much evidence of the "Target archery ideology has overshadowed and for the most part replaced the original concept of traditional, changing it to a technology-based concept to maximize efficiency/convenience".
                      That may be because you are shooting 3D in competition and not FITA.

                      I saw a drop in bow poundage after everyone started shooting 3D. Years ago most of us shot over 50 lbs. After everyone started shooting 3D most could not go 30-50+ targets with that kind of weight.

                      That and we all got old.

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                        #71
                        You are thinking way to much to make the shot you are trying to make.

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                          #72
                          For 50 years nothing has really changed for me.
                          It is still all about putting one arrow right where I want it, when the pressure is on.
                          To tell the truth the satisfaction is the same whether it is a Deer, squirrel or 3-d target with a bunch of buddies

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                            #73
                            Originally posted by M.E.B. View Post
                            That may be because you are shooting 3D in competition and not FITA.

                            I saw a drop in bow poundage after everyone started shooting 3D. Years ago most of us shot over 50 lbs. After everyone started shooting 3D most could not go 30-50+ targets with that kind of weight.

                            That and we all got old.
                            I shoot 3d and also indoor winter league, and use my hunting set-up. Twenty-five years ago I was shooting a 65-lb longbow, fifteen years ago it was 55 lbs. Today, in light of having passed my 70th birthday I'm shooting 45lbs. I didn't decrease my poundage because of 3d, I did it in deference to my ageing body.

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                              #74
                              Originally posted by Phillip Fields View Post
                              I shoot 3d and also indoor winter league, and use my hunting set-up. Twenty-five years ago I was shooting a 65-lb longbow, fifteen years ago it was 55 lbs. Today, in light of having passed my 70th birthday I'm shooting 45lbs. I didn't decrease my poundage because of 3d, I did it in deference to my ageing body.


                              Like I said "And we all got old."

                              I believe our ranks as a whole are getting older. We need new blood in the sport which means we will have to recruit from the compound shooters.

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                                #75
                                I know I said I was out of this one, but what I am about to say is from the heart, and I just had to share it, then I am "really" out of this one.



                                I'm not ashamed of the moniker. I guess maybe that's because my first introduction to it was an offering of complement, and it remained so for a very long time.

                                I didn't start seeing animosity toward it for many years, and I quickly realized that animosity was largely self inflicted due to less than savory/negative attitudes among our ranks.

                                That negative attitude was/is, directed as much (maybe more) toward each other as it is toward those outside our ranks.

                                It makes me "SAD" when I witness it.

                                I've tried my best to hold my head up, and combat/put off that attitude/image (because it's a false image), and I will wear the handle proudly until the day I die.

                                My view of what Traditional Archery & Traditional Bowhunting encompasses is rooted in:

                                (1) Over 50 years of participation in, and observance of the sports,

                                (2) My delving into the history of the sports, and what they were long before my existence,

                                AND

                                (3) My "Utmost Respect & Admiration" of/for ALL those across the "Entire Spectrum".

                                Traditional Archery/Bowhunter for life, and darn proud of it.

                                Happy New Year !!!!!

                                Rick

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