Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Deer Ecology 101

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by lovemylegacy View Post
    What is your opinion on nubbins based on the research that they relocate before age 1yr?
    I don't mean to split hairs, but what research are you refering to? Reason I ask, is that all research Im aware of shows buck fawns hang pretty close to momma's home until fall at 1.5 yrs and first set of antlers. Thus the name "The Fall Shuffle "

    As I recall, yearling buck dispersal varies depending on deer densities and habitat uniformity and distribution. For example, S TX, where habitat is pretty constant over a very large area with similar densities and sex ratios throughout, dispersal distances are around 3-6 miles. In Illinois farm and creek bottom country it was more like 8-12 miles.

    Comment


      You spoke briefly that some fawn does that are born earlier in the cycle are bred their first year.
      Can you speak to that more? Do you have a ballpark percentage that you have seen? I understand there are many variables. Also any information on fawn survival rates of fawns born to 1yo does?

      Second question

      We manage the exact same way that you suggested, shooting the bottom out of each age class. My fear is that we are shooting young bucks (1 and 2 yo's) that are not genetically inferior, but just younger than the other deer in their age group. My question, is how long does it take a buck to catch up to his age class deer if he was born in late July and most his age class were born in late May? Are they caught up by their second set of antlers or does it take longer?

      We are in the exact same boat as only having so many seats in the table, which forces us to make decisions on deer younger than I would prefer.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Jake View Post
        You spoke briefly that some fawn does that are born earlier in the cycle are bred their first year.
        Can you speak to that more? Do you have a ballpark percentage that you have seen? I understand there are many variables. Also any information on fawn survival rates of fawns born to 1yo does?

        Second question

        We manage the exact same way that you suggested, shooting the bottom out of each age class. My fear is that we are shooting young bucks (1 and 2 yo's) that are not genetically inferior, but just younger than the other deer in their age group. My question, is how long does it take a buck to catch up to his age class deer if he was born in late July and most his age class were born in late May? Are they caught up by their second set of antlers or does it take longer?

        We are in the exact same boat as only having so many seats in the table, which forces us to make decisions on deer younger than I would prefer.
        To try and answer the first question, it's hard to say an actual percentage of first year fawn that get bred, but just a WAG would probably be about 30%. Fawn survival rate can come down to a coyote making a right or left hand turn and finding one. Typically, fawn survival rates are listed at .75% for does in the wild if I remember correctly.

        Second question, to answer that, re-read my comment about not shooting yearlings and MOST 2yr olds. I start "culling" at 3 years with given exceptions to 2 yr olds on things like pedicle damage, injury.... Bucks that are "born later" should be on the same page by 1.5 as all other deer in that age class. In other words, if you have a group of fawns born in May of 2016 and some born in Aug 2016, they should all be "equal" by the following November of 2017. Make sense? Clear as mud? Sometimes I confuse myself....

        Comment


          You spoke to brush control / chaining vs dozer / and preferring burning.

          We are in Shackelford county with 90 Mesquite and hackberry trees. While we have done some substantial brush control and sculpting, much of the ranch still has far too much prickly pear. Especially making it difficult to run dogs for the quail.

          We differed all grazing in 2016, and have exceptional ground "fuel" this year with all the grass and weed growth. Would a spring burn serve to kill off a substantial amount of the prickly pear, or are we looking at areal herbicides as our best option? The Tordon from the heli method is effective but extremely expensive.

          Thanks and great thread.

          Comment


            You can burn as long as you can carry a good fire. It's not great a killing out pear but can knock it back. Depending on fuel load, you can back burn heavy pear areas for a better kill. Most guys I know that burn pear, come back in when it starts to regrow and apply a herbicide then and seem to have a better uptake of the chemical for a better kill on it.

            Comment


              Be sure to get professional guidance with a prescribed fire! I would suggest your area TPWD Technical Guidance Biologist.



              Best control is with a fire immediately followed with Tordon, however thats usually used by cattle ranches.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Top Of Texas View Post
                I don't mean to split hairs, but what research are you refering to? Reason I ask, is that all research Im aware of shows buck fawns hang pretty close to momma's home until fall at 1.5 yrs and first set of antlers. Thus the name "The Fall Shuffle "

                As I recall, yearling buck dispersal varies depending on deer densities and habitat uniformity and distribution. For example, S TX, where habitat is pretty constant over a very large area with similar densities and sex ratios throughout, dispersal distances are around 3-6 miles. In Illinois farm and creek bottom country it was more like 8-12 miles.
                You are right, I said 1 year old meaning 1.5. I don't recall specifically what biologist or college. A radio telemetry survey was being done, I assume most biologist do this, it was very interesting that all the nubbin/spikes left the area completely. I don't know that I buy the habitat uniformity. I know that may affect deer density in specific areas, but that would affect all deer, not just yearlings.

                My understanding is the doe was responsible for the dispersion of buck fawns/yearlings. I guess it depends on who wrote the thesis and who accepts it. The way I see it is certain characteristics were put into male vs female animals. Dispersion is one of those things. God said, "Thou shalt not breed thy mother nor thy sister"

                Comment


                  The uniformity is refering to the fact that the same habitat the buck fawn was born in is the same no matter where the dispersing buck fawn goes, so to find suitable habitat, he doesnt have to go far. If habitat is broken, that is in pathces or along drainages, then he has to go farther to find suitable habitat.

                  Yearlings (1.5 yr) disperse. Once a deer reaches about 2 yr old, he's in the area he'll stay.

                  Dispersal is God's way of maintaining genetic diversity.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Top Of Texas View Post
                    The uniformity is refering to the fact that the same habitat the buck fawn was born in is the same no matter where the dispersing buck fawn goes, so to find suitable habitat, he doesnt have to go far. If habitat is broken, that is in pathces or along drainages, then he has to go farther to find suitable habitat.

                    Yearlings (1.5 yr) disperse. Once a deer reaches about 2 yr old, he's in the area he'll stay.

                    Dispersal is God's way of maintaining genetic diversity.
                    Yessir

                    Great thread. As a bowhunter it really appeals to me.

                    Comment


                      What about natural disaster affecting deer location/movement? I.e. severe flooding for those of us that hunt river bottoms.

                      Do the deer push out and come back, find new habitat, find high areas and stay?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by CastAndBlast View Post
                        What about natural disaster affecting deer location/movement? I.e. severe flooding for those of us that hunt river bottoms.

                        Do the deer push out and come back, find new habitat, find high areas and stay?
                        Following. A tornado ripped every hardwood in our hardwood bottom on 40 acres in May. It looks like an atomic bomb exploded and wiped everything out. Following that, a crew came in and thinned out the pines and another guy came in a logged much of the hardwoods that were salvageable. I did not see a deer all season on this property. I truly believed all of this activity pushed any deer off.

                        My question is with piles of hardwoods lying around should they be burned or can I leave them lay and let them grow up into thickets?

                        And, how can I try to pull deer back onto this property? I am running a corn feeder and going to try to run it all year. We have much hunting pressure all around us.

                        Comment


                          CastBlast, US A Retired....

                          Those are pretty site specific questions that would require site specific knowledge to properly address. In general, deer are what's called a mid-successional species. Succession is a term that refers to the natural changes that occur in a plant community. For example, if you took a stand of big, old hardwoods and pines and logged it, you would be taking a late successional community and turning it to an early successional community. So what was big tall trees, now becomes weeds, grass, bushes, vines, and little trees. That community will gradually change back to what it was before it was logged.

                          So, if you think about what deer need, weeds & browse for food, some thick cover to hide in, and water, then a tornado and logging would most likely improve the habitat for deer. Again, site specific as well as intensity specific (how much and to what degree). Now, to our human eye, which tends to lean on beauty, we'd rather see a big, pretty hardwood stand and not a bunch of slash laying around and grown up weeds and thickets. But to a deer, it's a steak house, Baskin-Robbins, and up scale Hotel, all right there in one spot. So, Retired Army, without seeing it, I would think that nothing is the best thing you could do.

                          As for flooded bottoms, the floods wash in tons of nutrients, amd combined with the extra moisture, grow fabulous deer food. Yes, they'll come back.

                          As I've posted several times before in multiple threads, you can get free, expert assistance from your areas TPWD Technical Guidance Biologist who will have site specific knowledge and recommendations.

                          Comment


                            Excellent thread, I'll post info on a seminar I attended a few years ago ( Nobel Foundation).

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Top Of Texas View Post
                              CastBlast, US A Retired....



                              Those are pretty site specific questions that would require site specific knowledge to properly address. In general, deer are what's called a mid-successional species. Succession is a term that refers to the natural changes that occur in a plant community. For example, if you took a stand of big, old hardwoods and pines and logged it, you would be taking a late successional community and turning it to an early successional community. So what was big tall trees, now becomes weeds, grass, bushes, vines, and little trees. That community will gradually change back to what it was before it was logged.



                              So, if you think about what deer need, weeds & browse for food, some thick cover to hide in, and water, then a tornado and logging would most likely improve the habitat for deer. Again, site specific as well as intensity specific (how much and to what degree). Now, to our human eye, which tends to lean on beauty, we'd rather see a big, pretty hardwood stand and not a bunch of slash laying around and grown up weeds and thickets. But to a deer, it's a steak house, Baskin-Robbins, and up scale Hotel, all right there in one spot. So, Retired Army, without seeing it, I would think that nothing is the best thing you could do.



                              As for flooded bottoms, the floods wash in tons of nutrients, amd combined with the extra moisture, grow fabulous deer food. Yes, they'll come back.



                              As I've posted several times before in multiple threads, you can get free, expert assistance from your areas TPWD Technical Guidance Biologist who will have site specific knowledge and recommendations.



                              http://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/land...ce/biologists/


                              Thank you for your response. Probably 70% of our property was under water for 6 months or longer. A ton of browse was killed, but a lot of river silt washed in. I assume that we will have some great browse growth in the following years, but this year was tough.

                              I am more wondering about deer movement. If they are pushed out for that long, what are the chances of mature deer returning to original habitat vs. staying relocated? It is probably impossible to answer due to a million variables, but I wonder how "attached" deer are to their original habitat?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by CastAndBlast View Post
                                Thank you for your response. Probably 70% of our property was under water for 6 months or longer. A ton of browse was killed, but a lot of river silt washed in. I assume that we will have some great browse growth in the following years, but this year was tough.

                                I am more wondering about deer movement. If they are pushed out for that long, what are the chances of mature deer returning to original habitat vs. staying relocated? It is probably impossible to answer due to a million variables, but I wonder how "attached" deer are to their original habitat?
                                C&B

                                I can tell you that in north La. I am involved with an 8000 acre property between the Ms. River levee and the river. Floods every year with times where the entire property goes under water. The deer move to high ground when the floods come and somehow know exactly when they can return. Essentially all the deer return once the water starts subsiding. They even hit the high spots deep in flooded country before all the water is gone. This behavior is fairly common along the islands and numerous properties inside the levee.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X