REMCO, Mike and Navy Seals

[JES]

Are you implying simply because they have been in combat they have mental health issues? Not all of us end up with PTSD because of of our experiences over there, maybe I’m missing the point you’re trying to make. Murder is murder in my book.

[Leftridge]

Are you implying simply because they have been in combat they have mental health issues? Not all of us end up with PTSD because of of our experiences over there, maybe I’m missing the point you’re trying to make. Murder is murder in my book.

Nope.. But I am implying that I have considered the possibility that what Seals specifically do can jack up their thinking after doing it for a long time. And I suspect few Seals are normal after service. And that it’s not a far reach that some of them crack. And that it should be considered in punishment and that I would oppose the death penalty because of it.

My dad is a combat vet, my grandad was a combat vet. They didn’t do the things seals do day in and day out. It doesn’t make anyone serve less than anyone else’s, I guess I have just found an empathy that most people don’t get, and possibly others that didn’t do that specific job don’t get.

Murder is murder.. No doubt.

My original statement was before stringing the guys up it saying they should die if found guilty stop and think about what they have done for this country. If someone comes to the same conclusion so be it.

Maybe it’s just something you had to sit through hearing to understand my perspective on it.

And it’s ok for everyone to have their point of view. I’m not offended by it like others seem to be of mine. I certainly don’t claim to speak for the guys I sat with and this issue wasn’t discussed.




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[Clay C]

Nope.. But I am implying that I have considered the possibility that what Seals specifically do can jack up their thinking after doing it for a long time. And I suspect few Seals are normal after service. And that it’s not a far reach that some of them crack. And that it should be considered in punishment and that I would oppose the death penalty because of it.

My dad is a combat vet, my grandad was a combat vet. They didn’t do the things seals do day in and day out. It doesn’t make anyone serve less than anyone else’s, I guess I have just found an empathy that most people don’t get, and possibly others that didn’t do that specific job don’t get.

Murder is murder.. No doubt.

My original statement was before stringing the guys up it saying they should die if found guilty stop and think about what they have done for this country. If someone comes to the same conclusion so be it.

Maybe it’s just something you had to sit through hearing to understand my perspective on it.

And it’s ok for everyone to have their point of view. I’m not offended by it like others seem to be of mine. I certainly don’t claim to speak for the guys I sat with and this issue wasn’t discussed.



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What about what the guy they killed did for this country?

[Leftridge]

What about what the guy they killed did for this country?

I’ve addressed that about 5 times already.. There is no defense of their actions if it is found they did it, which seems likely.


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[Tx_Wader]

What I would say is the ones being accused of the SF Rangers death should be held accountable for it. But there also needs to be some context to understand what these guys have been through before you just scream put them to death. I’m not making excuses and don’t say they don’t deserve to be punished for their crimes. I’m just saying there are at least considerations to be thought about.

I know that you're pumped up because you share a fire with some military guys and got to hear some stories but you're overthinking this by leaps and bounds.

Do you know if the two Navy Seals had PTSD? I didn't read that anywhere about them but it could help with their defense if they killed the Green Beret to cover up their stealing money.

Respect and honor your Veterans. They not only deserve that respect but most have earned it as well.

[Leftridge]

I know that you're pumped up because you share a fire with some military guys and got to hear some stories but you're overthinking this by leaps and bounds.

Do you know if the two Navy Seals had PTSD? I didn't read that anywhere about them but it could help with their defense if they killed the Green Beret to cover up their stealing money.

Respect and honor your Veterans. They not only deserve that respect but most have earned it as well.

Ya, maybe so.. You could be right.

Or maybe its just easier to not have critical thinking skills about topics like this.

[TeamAmerica]

Sad story for sure. I think there is always a natural tendency to elevate certain people in the military, police, etc. In many ways you have to hold them to a higher standard than the average population (not a lesser standard). I tend to believe that anyone that murders is not mentally healthy. I'm not in favor of the death penalty as a whole but at least there are circumstances that judges/jurors take into account in murder cases and I'm certain they will do that here as well.

[rockyraider]

Because of mental health issues related to what they specifically do, uhhh yeah..


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Not to be rude, but your thinking is way off base.

[Leftridge]

Not to be rude, but your thinking is way off base.

Because my opinion is a debatable point? That brought a lot to the discussion, not to be rude.

I'm not trying to convince anyone I'm right.. I just have some thoughts about it and that's why I posted.

[curtintex]

One of my best buddies, a recently retired USMC Gunny SGT, put it best...."The military is a microcosm of society. If 10% of society is ****birds, you can bet that 10% of the military is as well."

Nobody should get a free pass from breaking the law for self gain. Now, if they had to break the law to further the mission they were tasked with, I can forgive that, but not for self gain.

[Clay C]

One of my best buddies, a recently retired USMC Gunny SGT, put it best...."The military is a microcosm of society. If 10% of society is ****birds, you can bet that 10% of the military is as well."

Nobody should get a free pass from breaking the law for self gain. Now, if they had to break the law to further the mission they were tasked with, I can forgive that, but not for self gain.

Bingo. I remember when the SEAL who claimed to have killed OBL and wrote the book about it got arrested for a DWI and people here were willing to give him a pass. Some stated he should be able to do what he wanted. All fine and dandy until your the one who's family gets hit and killed by him, or strangled to death for trying to do the right thing.

[bpa556]

I am not being argumentative, just sharing a different point of view.

I can say, with a very high degree of confidence, that the men you shared that fire with would see those two lined up against a wall and shot were it decided that they murdered another operator to cover up their own embezzling scheme. (Granted, a Staff Sgt. in the Green Berets is not in the same league as a DEVGRU or Delta operator, but he is an operator in the same sport.)

The continued success of the Special Operations community is wholly predicated on the certain knowledge that the guys on your left and right will, without hesitation, sacrifice their own lives for yours (and the mission, of course). The idea that one would murder another for personal profit is so repugnant to the community that any notion of leniency would be dismissed out of hand.

Selection for operators at the level of DEVGRU (from among the ranks of the other SEAL teams) is specifically for mental and emotional toughness. There are untold thousands of Servicemen who are physically capable of doing what DEVGRU and Delta do. The mental toughness is what sets them apart. Assignment to DEVGRU indicates a well above-average capacity to weather very violent and intimate combat actions with minimal (relatively) degradation to one’s psyche.

That’s not to say that it has no effect, but they’re selected for their perceived capacity to do the job and still be themselves. It serves no interests to spend years (and millions of dollars) to train a man to a certain level of competence, to see him irreparably broken on his first deployment.

If these men killed the Staff Sgt. to cover up their embezzling scheme, they likely did so with full mental clarity and malice aforethought. They earned a needle.

If it was an accident, so be it. They’ll have to live with that.

The things that caused your heartstrings to bend for these two are the same ones that will preclude any notion of mercy among their former peers (if the speculation turns out to be true).

Just something to ruminate on...

Of course, if you are opposed to the death penalty in general, I just wasted 2 minutes of both our lives.

In the interest of full disclosure: I am pro-capital punishment and believe that it is, currently, woefully underutilized.



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[Leftridge]

I am not being argumentative, just sharing a different point of view.

I can say, with a very high degree of confidence, that the men you shared that fire with would see those two lined up against a wall and shot were it decided that they murdered another operator to cover up their own embezzling scheme. (Granted, a Staff Sgt. in the Green Berets is not in the same league as a DEVGRU or Delta operator, but he is an operator in the same sport.)

The continued success of the Special Operations community is wholly predicated on the certain knowledge that the guys on your left and right will, without hesitation, sacrifice their own lives for yours (and the mission, of course). The idea that one would murder another for personal profit is so repugnant to the community that any notion of leniency would be dismissed out of hand.

Selection for operators at the level of DEVGRU (from among the ranks of the other SEAL teams) is specifically for mental and emotional toughness. There are untold thousands of Servicemen who are physically capable of doing what DEVGRU and Delta do. The mental toughness is what sets them apart. Assignment to DEVGRU indicates a well above-average capacity to weather very violent and intimate combat actions with minimal (relatively) degradation to one’s psyche.

That’s not to say that it has no effect, but they’re selected for their perceived capacity to do the job and still be themselves. It serves no interests to spend years (and millions of dollars) to train a man to a certain level of competence, to see him irreparably broken on his first deployment.

If these men killed the Staff Sgt. to cover up their embezzling scheme, they likely did so with full mental clarity and malice aforethought. They earned a needle.

If it was an accident, so be it. They’ll have to live with that.

The things that caused your heartstrings to bend for these two are the same ones that will preclude any notion of mercy among their former peers (if the speculation turns out to be true).

Just something to ruminate on...

Of course, if you are opposed to the death penalty in general, I just wasted 2 minutes of both our lives.

In the interest of full disclosure: I am pro-capital punishment and believe that it is, currently, woefully underutilized.



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That was the most well thought out response and I appreciate you taking the time to write it. It is certainly something for me to chew on and I appreciate that.

Oh, I’m all for capital punishment.. lol.. And the death penalty. But I do think that some thought process has to occur that DEVGRU is creating and turning out some devastated broken guys and how can’t they be.

Over utilized special operators going year after year after year. More than any guy was designed to. I think that leads to some of the stories we now see.

So maybe it’s all on them and personally responsibility. But seems to me we might be creating it. If there is any merit to that then I guess that’s where I come from on the death penalty on this case.

None the less, thanks for taking the team. It was appreciate by me.


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[bpa556]

That was the most well thought out response and I appreciate you taking the time to write it. It is certainly something for me to chew on and I appreciate that.

Oh, I’m all for capital punishment.. lol.. And the death penalty. But I do think that some thought process has to occur that DEVGRU is creating and turning out some devastated broken guys and how can’t they be.

Over utilized special operators going year after year after year. More than any guy was designed to. I think that leads to some of the stories we now see.

So maybe it’s all on them and personally responsibility. But seems to me we might be creating it. If there is any merit to that then I guess that’s where I come from on the death penalty on this case.

None the less, thanks for taking the team. It was appreciate by me.


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I wholly agree with you that they are (and have been for some time now) disturbingly over utilized in the current wars out east.


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[JakeGraves]

I am not being argumentative, just sharing a different point of view.

I can say, with a very high degree of confidence, that the men you shared that fire with would see those two lined up against a wall and shot were it decided that they murdered another operator to cover up their own embezzling scheme. (Granted, a Staff Sgt. in the Green Berets is not in the same league as a DEVGRU or Delta operator, but he is an operator in the same sport.)

The continued success of the Special Operations community is wholly predicated on the certain knowledge that the guys on your left and right will, without hesitation, sacrifice their own lives for yours (and the mission, of course). The idea that one would murder another for personal profit is so repugnant to the community that any notion of leniency would be dismissed out of hand.

Selection for operators at the level of DEVGRU (from among the ranks of the other SEAL teams) is specifically for mental and emotional toughness. There are untold thousands of Servicemen who are physically capable of doing what DEVGRU and Delta do. The mental toughness is what sets them apart. Assignment to DEVGRU indicates a well above-average capacity to weather very violent and intimate combat actions with minimal (relatively) degradation to one’s psyche.

That’s not to say that it has no effect, but they’re selected for their perceived capacity to do the job and still be themselves. It serves no interests to spend years (and millions of dollars) to train a man to a certain level of competence, to see him irreparably broken on his first deployment.

If these men killed the Staff Sgt. to cover up their embezzling scheme, they likely did so with full mental clarity and malice aforethought. They earned a needle.

If it was an accident, so be it. They’ll have to live with that.

The things that caused your heartstrings to bend for these two are the same ones that will preclude any notion of mercy among their former peers (if the speculation turns out to be true).

Just something to ruminate on...

Of course, if you are opposed to the death penalty in general, I just wasted 2 minutes of both our lives.

In the interest of full disclosure: I am pro-capital punishment and believe that it is, currently, woefully underutilized.



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What he said. This is a tough situation that hurts all the way around. I knew Logan before he joined and what I have read about him is very fitting to his personality when I knew him.