Dog killing my chickens.

[DirtyDave]

I hate the idea of having to kill a dog, but protecting People/Pets/Livestock is justified.

The threads that really get me ticked off are the ones with the guys killing hunting dogs for no reason other than its on their property.

[Lostacresranch]

[QUOTE=Bci2nd;12987315]The penal code does not give your permission to do anything. The penal code only lists illegal activities. If it NOT listed in the penal code than it is legal.



Im not saying that he cant shoot the dog. Im saying that it is not legal and he could still have to run the course of the legal system for doing so as a “defense to prosecution” is simply just that. He could still very much be arrested and forced to defend himself in court.



The same as defending against a human predator, no matter how justified, you could still be forced to defend your actions.



Im not speaking from opinion but from professional experience and Im not trying to prove anyone wrong.



Those that are saying it is legal arent “wrong” but theyre also not right.



The correct term to use, especially in “use of force” situations where the smallest details matter, is “justified” or “justifiable”.



The action, even though justifiable, is still illegal.[/
You are comparing "use of force" options in self defense to the protection of livestock? You can if you want, but you are incorrect if you think shooting dogs on your property that are killing your livestock is illegal. It's not. Not in Texas, or where I live in LA. Unless you are in city limits and get a discharge of firearms in city limits violation, he won't get in trouble.

[Shinesintx]

Pea Gravel!!!

Put pea gravel in a coffee can, shake it loudly when the dogs come near the chickens

If that doesn’t work, swat the dogs on the nose with a rolled newspaper and speak sternly to the dogs.

Vanilla...nah, that ain’t gonna work. Neither are the other two suggestions...maybe just go with SSS and call it a day.

[Tom]

the dogs are pets...don't shoot a pet. Ask the owners what they want you to do and what they expect you to do.....perhaps they don't want the dogs and you can convince them to take them to the rescue house.

if you shoot a dog for just being a dog then you will just feel like a **** at the end of the day or they would already be dead.

[Bci2nd]

[quote=Lostacresranch;12989043]

The penal code does not give your permission to do anything. The penal code only lists illegal activities. If it NOT listed in the penal code than it is legal.



Im not saying that he cant shoot the dog. Im saying that it is not legal and he could still have to run the course of the legal system for doing so as a “defense to prosecution” is simply just that. He could still very much be arrested and forced to defend himself in court.



The same as defending against a human predator, no matter how justified, you could still be forced to defend your actions.



Im not speaking from opinion but from professional experience and Im not trying to prove anyone wrong.



Those that are saying it is legal arent “wrong” but theyre also not right.



The correct term to use, especially in “use of force” situations where the smallest details matter, is “justified” or “justifiable”.



The action, even though justifiable, is still illegal.[/
You are comparing "use of force" options in self defense to the protection of livestock? You can if you want, but you are incorrect if you think shooting dogs on your property that are killing your livestock is illegal. It's not. Not in Texas, or where I live in LA. Unless you are in city limits and get a discharge of firearms in city limits violation, he won't get in trouble.

Texas Penal Code 42.092

(8)(b)(2) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly: without the owner‘s effective consent, kills, administers poison to, or causes serious bodily injury to an animal.



(d) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that1) the animal was discovered on the person’s property in the act of or after injuring or killing the person’s livestock animals or damaging the person’s crops and that the person killed or injured the animal at the time of this discovery.


A “defense to prosecution” does not make the act of killing the dog legal. Again, the penal code does not list legal acts, only illegal ones.

I have proven with verbatim quotes from the penal code that the act of killing the dog is illegal and as such you could be arrested and face prosecution.

The defense to prosecution is simply just that, it is evidence to be presented to a judge/jury that killing the dog was the only recourse even though it is illegal.

Again, illegal and justifiable are two different words.

[Lostacresranch]

Dog killing my chickens.

[quote=Bci2nd;12989190]

Texas Penal Code 42.092



(8)(b)(2) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly: without the owner‘s effective consent, kills, administers poison to, or causes serious bodily injury to an animal.







(d) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that1) the animal was discovered on the person’s property in the act of or after injuring or killing the person’s livestock animals or damaging the person’s crops and that the person killed or injured the animal at the time of this discovery.





A “defense to prosecution” does not make the act of killing the dog legal. Again, the penal code does not list legal acts, only illegal ones.



I have proven with verbatim quotes from the penal code that the act of killing the dog is illegal and as such you could be arrested and face prosecution.



The defense to prosecution is simply just that, it is evidence to be presented to a judge/jury that killing the dog was the only recourse even though it is illegal.



Again, illegal and justifiable are two different words.

Yes. I read what you posted. All of it. And again, if the OP shoots these dogs on HIS property, or property he lives on, dogs that are threatening to kill, or actually killing his livestock, i.e. "Chickens", he is acting in an acceptable manner, and will be well within his rights to do so. You can argue the penal code all you want. It proves my point. The section you posted proves "defense to prosecution". He will not be charged. He will not be prosecuted.
He has done the right thing and told the owners. If these dogs come back, he can shoot them. And he won't go to jail or be held liable for it.

[Bci2nd]

A defense to prosecution is not a defense to arrest or a defense to being charged.

The chances of him being charged however slim are in fact still there as an offense will have been committed if he does decide to shoot the aninals.

[flyby]

[quote=Lostacresranch;12990442]

Yes. I read what you posted. All of it. And again, if the OP shoots these dogs on HIS property, or property he lives on, dogs that are threatening to kill, or actually killing his livestock, i.e. "Chickens", he is acting in an acceptable manner, and will be well within his rights to do so. You can argue the penal code all you want. It proves my point. The section you posted proves "defense to prosecution". He will not be charged. He will not be prosecuted.
He has done the right thing and told the owners. If these dogs come back, he can shoot them. And he won't go to jail or be held liable for it.

Bci2nd is spot on. It IS ILLEGAL, and he CAN be ARRESTED!!! A "defense to prosecution" comes during the trial phase, not before. It's pretty obvious you don't understand Texas law.

A defense to prosecution is not a defense to arrest or a defense to being charged.

The chances of him being charged however slim are in fact still there as an offense will have been committed if he does decide to shoot the aninals.

Good job posting the Penal Code and with your explanation.

[wal1809]

There is a better way to handle this. GO get the guy, drink a beer with him and tell him the dogs are doing it again. Don't talk to him until it is just you and him. 9 times out of 10 you can come to some reasonable peaceful resolve. That way there is no legalities, be it you are right or wrong in the eye of the law. You also don't make an enemy out of a neighbor. If you kill the dogs they will always suspect you're the one. Why enter into that when a follow up visit to him will probably stop it?

[Jaybo31]

These's a whooole lota people that don't understand how "defense to prosecution" works or what it means.

[westtexducks]

the dogs are pets...don't shoot a pet. Ask the owners what they want you to do and what they expect you to do.....perhaps they don't want the dogs and you can convince them to take them to the rescue house.



if you shoot a dog for just being a dog then you will just feel like a **** at the end of the day or they would already be dead.

I shoot deer for being deer, coyotes for being coyotes and mice for being mice all the time. They dont want fido shot for killing livestock they better keep him locked up and under control


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[JackRyan]

I'm really surprised by the number of "kill the dogs" replies. I just had this happen to last week. My neighbor's dogs broke through our fence and killed both of our chickens during the night. Was I upset? Of course I was. One of the chickens was my daughters and she was distraught. Would I shoot the dogs? No I would not. These are his pets and I've my own share of trouble keeping our little dog inside of our fence. I had a talk with my neighbor and told him what happened. He was apologetic and offered to replace the chickens. I told him that we need to do whatever needs to be done to keep his dogs in his yard and he agreed. Whether legal or not it would take a lot for me to come to shooting a dog. If one was attacking me or my family I wouldn't hesitate but otherwise I'm not going to be shooting someone else's dog.

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[kruppa24]

These dogs are not in a fence and never have been. I have talked to the neighbor, and they are apologetic, but they have never offered to pay for a chicken and still let there dogs run loose.

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[TX_Hoghunter]

I have already posted to shoot the dogs but I am amazed by all of the people that post oh its a pet don't shoot a pet.......If the owners cared about the dogs they would keep them at home, plain and simple. For all of you people that are perfectly fine with someone elses property ( i.e. dogs ) destroying someone elses property ( i.e. chickens ) what if I load up a trailer load of cows and let them start grazing in your manicured yard?...maybe let them crap in your swimming pools some........Or God forbid maybe lick the paint off of your lifted 3/4 ton 4x4 truck with a 42 inch light bar on the roof..........

-john

[tex4k]

I read threads here all the time about the pure hatred of hogs, coons, coyotes, and thieves. People are actually willing to or at least voice their willingness for mass elimination, torture, and who knows what. What is the difference between them doing what they do and a dog doing what it does. There is absolutely no difference other than how a person has conditioned their thinking. Every situation calls for its own response.