Arrow setup

[SwampRabbit]

To answer your question bloodstick, with the carbon express shafts, you are very likely to have good "hunting arrow" weight. Carbon express shafts are around 10-11 grains per inch. If anything, sometimes they can be too heavy. In your setup, you are running nearly 13 grains per pound of draw which will give you a bit of an arc and noticeable drop past 10-15 yards. At 45#s, you are better off served with CX150s so you don't have to rely on so much head weight to spine them correctly.

The one thing that having a heavy shaft does though, is it makes it harder to get a high FOC that everybody talks about. Lighter shafts allow you to run a heavier spine and then put more weight up front to spine them correctly. I don't think you need to stress over that right now though.

I am not retired, have young kiddos, so it can be hard to meet up with people... but perhaps we could figure something out. I could likely spend an hour with you or so Saturday morning if you can make it down to Tomball area.

[SwampRabbit]

the carbon express heritage 250 (250 is the their own labeling, .391 spine as per the CE website) are 10.20 GPI and im shooting them almost full length. Cut right at 30.5" with 125 grain head, 15 grain insert.

From what feedback i have, the arrow is too stiff so i need to add weight up front. What else am i missing? the groups i am getting are sub-par but for a beginner, im just happy i can hit the target

Will an extra 50 grains make that much of a difference for me to notice them at my level of experience?

You need to go from 125 up front to about 200-225 up front. I would say 175s with 50 grain inserts weights would do you fine. Carbon express takes the GT insert weights (it is what I use)

See my note above.

[SwampRabbit]

If they are a 250 spine but he said they are a 400 spine.

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Carbon express heritages are

75 = 700 spine (use different inserts)
90 = 600 spine (use different inserts)
150 = 500 spine
250 = 400 spine
...

[bloodstick]

To answer your question bloodstick, with the carbon express shafts, you are very likely to have good "hunting arrow" weight. Carbon express shafts are around 10-11 grains per inch. If anything, sometimes they can be too heavy. In your setup, you are running nearly 13 grains per pound of draw which will give you a bit of an arc and noticeable drop past 10-15 yards. At 45#s, you are better off served with CX150s so you don't have to rely on so much head weight to spine them correctly.

The one thing that having a heavy shaft does though, is it makes it harder to get a high FOC that everybody talks about. Lighter shafts allow you to run a heavier spine and then put more weight up front to spine them correctly. I don't think you need to stress over that right now though.

I am not retired, have young kiddos, so it can be hard to meet up with people... but perhaps we could figure something out. I could likely spend an hour with you or so Saturday morning if you can make it down to Tomball area.

Tomball isn't a bad trip from the house, about 45 minutes. But i have previous engagements already. It'll need to be another weekend. Appreciate the nice gesture

I would play around with the calculator more, but its blocked here at the office.

[SwampRabbit]

I figured you probably ran down to bowzone during lunch. They are great folks, but know very little about trad and trad shooting.

I still went there for arrows for a while, but honestly, the lady who does their arrows kept cutting them wrong and I just eventually got the stuff to make up my own. It is cheaper in the long run too.

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[DRT]

Carbon express heritages are

75 = 700 spine (use different inserts)
90 = 600 spine (use different inserts)
150 = 500 spine
250 = 400 spine
...

I run 500 spine at 50 lbs but need 400 as my head is a half inch off my shelf. And even then with a 27 inch draw the 400svwould be longer but I will need to jump up to 200 grain heads. 400 spine is fine for him with a 175 grain point. The numbers on the chart say so. However we know you can tweek that with brace height and form issues. I think with 175 grain heads he will be fine.

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[bloodstick]

so my options are
1. step down to the 150 (500 spine) 30.5" and keep the 125 grain point weight
calculator on my phone gives me 56.3 and 54.7 dynamic spines. There is a
little room to tweak and get them closer. 177 fps 32ft-lbs energy

2. keep the 250's and increase my point weight to 175 grains and insert of 50 grains. calculator on my phone gives me 56.3 and 54.3 dynamic spines. 160 fps 32.6 ft-lbs energy


Both give me almost identical results with the exception of 17 FPS.

[KenWood]

I know it's not really recommended for newbs to bare shaft tune. That's for sure. I do, however, believe it may be beneficial to at least bareshaft plane. Let's face it, a lot of guys have put it down because they just couldn't get any results from their practice. Sometimes it's really easy to become frustrated even if you know what your doing. Having arrows that are at least close would help that. I know poorly tuned arrows with field points will group. But poorly tuned arrows are not very forgiving to form flaws that especially new guys have. A good way to get close is to strip the fletching off of one shaft and shoot it. I'm willing to bet your nock is flying way right of the point. Shoot multiple times to figure out a consistent result. You can add weight till you get a straight flyer but I'm betting you will think it's way too heavy. Just my 2 cents.
That will get it close. In my opinion, grouping bare with fletched shafts is getting it better.

[KenWood]

Also keep in mind that that calculator is useless until you have an arrow you've tuned and can adjust the form factor. That thing is great if you have perfect form. Unlike me.

[DRT]

It's worked great for me but I've only had to set up for two bows so far.

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[KenWood]

It always ended up too stiff for me. If I put in -8 for correction factor it hits it on the head.

[SwampRabbit]

so my options are
1. step down to the 150 (500 spine) 30.5" and keep the 125 grain point weight
calculator on my phone gives me 56.3 and 54.7 dynamic spines. There is a
little room to tweak and get them closer. 177 fps 32ft-lbs energy

2. keep the 250's and increase my point weight to 175 grains and insert of 50 grains. calculator on my phone gives me 56.3 and 54.3 dynamic spines. 160 fps 32.6 ft-lbs energy


Both give me almost identical results with the exception of 17 FPS.

Option 3... shoot with somebody who has experience with this kind of stuff. Hell, I know how to tune, but I still go shoot with experienced eyes to get proper feedback.

Until you can swing that, throw some 175s and realize you are not done yet... you likely will go higher... not be happy with that arrow for 45# and will tune a different arrow shaft/head afterall. Hell, you might just buy a different bow before you even get that far.

But... if you want to hunt with that bow... you need to get spined right.

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[DRT]

Also keep in mind that that calculator is useless until you have an arrow you've tuned and can adjust the form factor. That thing is great if you have perfect form. Unlike me.

What I don't understand about this statement is you can't have an arrow that tunes right without a calculation method. And the form factor is a guess unit you bought, shot and adjusted the arrow set up.

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[bloodstick]

I wont rule out buying another. Cant have just one.
But in the meantime, i do want to set this one up correctly.
Thanks yall for the good info.
I may be able to do something about Saturday morning Swamprabbit. Will let you know


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[caughtandhobble]

I wont rule out buying another. Cant have just one.
But in the meantime, i do want to set this one up correctly.
Thanks yall for the good info.
I may be able to do something about Saturday morning Swamprabbit. Will let you know


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Go see Swamp, you will be happy that you did. He's an Aggie Engineer sometimes you have to ask him to dumb it down a little.