Libertarians & Conservatives

[flywise]

Really? You don't believe that. Did you even go to school?

He may be fairly young and lord knows schools most likely have not taught true American hist. In 25 years. I have not seen any text books in a very long time but i doubt they teach anything about the faith of the founding fathers, or that of those who came here before them

[Vermin93]

Link?

This is a pretty good read with separate analysis from 5 history professors.

Was America founded as a Christian nation?

That question has served a variety of political causes since July 4, 1776, from legalizing persecution and aiding runaway slaves to fighting Nazis and Communists.

The scholars below have spent years reflecting on the intersection of American religion and nationalism. Their answers to the question invite us to examine the motivations behind the controversy: Why do so many people think the country's Christian history is so important?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/living...istian-nation/

[XBowHunter]

This is a pretty good read with separate analysis from 5 history professors.



Was America founded as a Christian nation?



That question has served a variety of political causes since July 4, 1776, from legalizing persecution and aiding runaway slaves to fighting Nazis and Communists.



The scholars below have spent years reflecting on the intersection of American religion and nationalism. Their answers to the question invite us to examine the motivations behind the controversy: Why do so many people think the country's Christian history is so important?



http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/living...istian-nation/

Thanks, very well informative article.

[XBowHunter]

Its not typical of schools to teach accurate hist. At any level.

On that we agree. They taught me Columbus discovered America, that's a joke!!!!!

[miket]

Link?

This happened way before "links". Obviously not all the founders were Christians, and we were not actually founded as technically a "christian nation", but reading the founders letters, newspaper articles and other writings clearly proves that Christian principles were a ( the ) driving force behind the founding of this Country. There is no, and can be no disputing this fact. The writings are there and the founders intentions are clear.

Again, we are well aware that not all were Christians, and it is well known that some were athiests. But from the very first "official" arrivals until this very day, God, Christianity and its principles has been a driving force in the US.

[flywise]

This happened way before "links". Obviously not all the founders were Christians, and we were not actually founded as technically a "christian nation", but reading the founders letters, newspaper articles and other writings clearly proves that Christian principles were a ( the ) driving force behind the founding of this Country. There is no, and can be no disputing this fact. The writings are there and the founders intentions are clear.

Again, we are well aware that not all were Christians, and it is well known that some were athiests. But from the very first "official" arrivals until this very day, God, Christianity and its principles has been a driving force in the US.

Yes sir
And www.wallbuilders.com is a great resource for those letters and other great historical documents.

[XBowHunter]

Libertarians & Conservatives

This happened way before "links". Obviously not all the founders were Christians, and we were not actually founded as technically a "christian nation", but reading the founders letters, newspaper articles and other writings clearly proves that Christian principles were a ( the ) driving force behind the founding of this Country. There is no, and can be no disputing this fact. The writings are there and the founders intentions are clear.



Again, we are well aware that not all were Christians, and it is well known that some were athiests. But from the very first "official" arrivals until this very day, God, Christianity and its principles has been a driving force in the US.

And sometimes that causes problems.

Big problems.

See alcohol prohibition & the war on drugs.


Complete and utter failures, and yet we continue with one of them.


Just one more reason why I'm a libertarian

[SaltwaterSlick]

I may be totally off base and dead wrong, but what I DO BELIEVE is that this nation was and is blessed by God and Judaeo-Christian principles indeed played a major role in its development and laws. There are a few old traditions and such that give the younger folks a hint of those convictions... like placing your hand on the Bible at traditional swearing-in ceremonies of government officials comes to mind as a good example...

To me THE biggest shift in our nation's morals, traditions, and culture came when the libtards were successful in removing prayer from our public schools... This started a downhill spiral of the moral fiber and strength of this great nation that will be its downfall and bring it to ruin. The final death nail of the removal of God's blessing on this nation will be the day when we turn our backs on Israel. Until that day, we at least have a chance to turn it around and get back to the founding principles on which America was founded.

[jerp]

As stated above, many of the founders principles were Judaeo-Christian in origin, but one of the first things they did is to declare there would be no state religion. (which was common for states in colonial times) As has been well documented, the founders personal beliefs in the religious realm ran the gamut from devout to deist to skeptic. The overriding and most important issue they did agree on is where our rights come from. Unlike in monarchies where the crown had the power to dole out rights as he/she saw fit, this nation was founded on the idea that our basic rights come from God. Or as Jefferson put it in the Declaration, "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God". Besides the Bible, the founder's biggest influence were the early philosophers of Classical Liberalism and Empiricism*. In a nutshell, classical liberalism is the philosophy that individual rights pre-exist the state and the only legitimate purpose of the state is to protect those rights. That is why the Bill of Rights are all "negative rights" - restraining the government from interfering in respect to these basic rights.

When I hear somebody say "the Constitution gives me the right! " to do one thing or another, I always want to tell them that the Constitution does not give the the right - you already had the right. The Constitution is there to stop the government from violating those rights.

* eg:
Adam Smith
John Locke
David Hume

EDIT: is it a sign that a post is too long when you include footnotes?

[SaltwaterSlick]

The other major shift in our nation's stability, culture and helped the downward spiral was when the draft was eliminated and we went to an all-volunteer military... again Jimmy Carter, another libtard, was responsible for that...
After that, the pride and ownership of "The Great American Experiment" took a nose dive. When I was growing up, we all knew that sooner or later we'd all have to take our turn at defending America and all She stands for. That is certainly not the case today. Reinstating the draft would likely be as hard as taking away an entitlement from the millions of "victims" and recipients of the entitlement once given (AKA ObamaCare), but such a move could save this nation... of course it could also just hasten the push (or jump) over the cliff into the abyss too.

[Vermin93]

I've been trying to dig up an interview that I heard a few years ago and I finally found it. This is a very interesting interview on the subject of what America's founders believed.

The interview was conducted by Dr. Albert Mohler of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. The interviewee is Dr. Gregg Frazer, who has studied this topic extensively and who did his doctoral dissertation on it. He later published the book "The Religious Beliefs of America’s Founders: Reason, Revelation and Revolution". His explanation of what he calls the "theistic rationalism" of the key founders addresses some of the assertions made in this thread.

The interview is available in written and audio format at this link:

http://www.albertmohler.com/2012/09/...-gregg-frazer/

[flywise]

I've been trying to dig up an interview that I heard a few years ago and I finally found it. This is a very interesting interview on the subject of what America's founders believed.

The interview was conducted by Dr. Albert Mohler of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. The interviewee is Dr. Gregg Frazer, who has studied this topic extensively and who did his doctoral dissertation on it. He later published the book "The Religious Beliefs of America’s Founders: Reason, Revelation and Revolution". His explanation of what he calls the "theistic rationalism" of the key founders addresses some of the assertions made in this thread.

The interview is available in written and audio format at this link:

http://www.albertmohler.com/2012/09/...-gregg-frazer/

What are the Assertions to which you are referring?

[Landrover]

I've been trying to dig up an interview that I heard a few years ago and I finally found it. This is a very interesting interview on the subject of what America's founders believed.

The interview was conducted by Dr. Albert Mohler of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. The interviewee is Dr. Gregg Frazer, who has studied this topic extensively and who did his doctoral dissertation on it. He later published the book "The Religious Beliefs of America’s Founders: Reason, Revelation and Revolution". His explanation of what he calls the "theistic rationalism" of the key founders addresses some of the assertions made in this thread.

The interview is available in written and audio format at this link:

http://www.albertmohler.com/2012/09/...-gregg-frazer/

This was really good interview. Really not overly new to me but from a 'religious and scholarly' viewpoint it is incredibly hard to discount. Interesting statement during summary (loosely summarized): "Over generous claims of religious beliefs of some founding fathers is doing a disservice to the founding of this nation and what is a Christian!"

[flywise]

https://wallbuilders.com/franklins-appeal-prayer-constitutional-convention-2/

https://wallbuilders.com/july-4th-prayer/

This country was not created as a Christian nation..it was created by a great faith in the creator

[SaltwaterSlick]

https://wallbuilders.com/franklins-a...-convention-2/

https://wallbuilders.com/july-4th-prayer/

This country was not created as a Christian nation..it was created by a great faith in the creator

THAT is a very good way to put it! I will use that in the future... I am not one to push one ideology or religious group or denomination over another, but I do believe our nation was founded on God-given principles that pre-date any gubment. Our founding fathers just put them on paper for the rest of the world to see/read and understand who we are as a people... It's we who are now so afraid of offending or being offended because of political correctness who have distorted the intentions of those founding fathers and their Godly principles that they outlined for us all to live by...