Vehicle searches

[hpdrifter]

The way I understood a SC ruling years ago, any search with reasonable cause that turns up contraband is a good search.

[flyby]

Here’s one that I don’t recommend trying. You and your buds get a hold of an old VW bus.....Preferably with Colorado plates. Slap a few Dead stickers on it and maybe even a “Willy for Prez” bumper sticker. Toss your stash in it for about a week and let it marinate. If you score the VW bus from Colorado you might already be pre-marinated and have that proper smell from the start. When the time is right and you have a few hours to kill standing on the road-side, remove the stash (I strongly suggest triple checking that this step takes place). Cruise through Flyby’s jurisdiction creeping at that “I’m trying to get away with something” speed (5 miles over speed limit typically). Once pulled over (don’t worry, you will be) his pooch will hit on the scent sending Flyby into full on search mode. If you probably planned for this prank he won’t find anything ( if you hadn’t you’re going to jail). Wait in till you can see brewing or at the point he begins ripping out the seats. At that time, spring the big surprise on him that it’s all just a good clean Texas Bow Hunter prank. Refer to this thread. If he refuses to chuckle immediately change the subject and ask him how his deer season is going. Report back to us here.

I hope we all find humour in this.

So, who's going to step up?

It's really not that uncommon to have an alert and not find anything. Talking to the occupants afterwards usually validates the alert ("We smoked a blunt in there a few hours ago" type of thing). Don't get upset when nothing is found, but always appreciate the honesty to validate the alert.

[flyby]

The way I understood a SC ruling years ago, any search with reasonable cause that turns up contraband is a good search.

Not sure on this....need probable cause to search a vehicle, or a search warrant. Without one or the other the search is illegal and any contraband located would be thrown out in court.

[Bruiser]

When do we get to enjoy the benefit of your input?

he likes posting here then talking about it on other sites

[jshouse]

Not sure on this....need probable cause to search a vehicle, or a search warrant. Without one or the other the search is illegal and any contraband located would be thrown out in court.

Consent would be a third way.

[tgil]

I was searching a vehicle one morning occupied by two local drug dealers. I already had them under arrest for several game violations, and possession of a stolen firearm. I made em sit by an old building 20 feet away and told Taz to "stellen"...watch them. As I am searching I glance at Taz and she had rolled over on her back, all four feet up, head laid back watching them. I yelled at her and she spun over.

I asked the two if they knew what she was doing?? I said she is pretending to be asleep so ya'll will run and she can BITE you. Guy said my dog was evil....LOL

Her sire used to bump and growl at arrested perps to make em move or, better yet, run. You had to keep him away from the bad guys or he would start something.

That's funny!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[wal1809]

I am fairly sure this will rustle a few feathers but what the he!! I been a lawman for a minute or two. I am also a professional dog trainer. I do not like the use of K9 searches for dope. I used to be a "Your arse is jail bound for any usable amount" kind of police. I was police before the term "Usable amount" was introduced. My pendulum has swung all the way to the opposite side.

There are multiple reasons why I don't like the use of k9. One is from my personal experience with an officer and his K9. This was not hear say, it was with my own eyeballs I witnessed. This officer was a flat out lying POS. I raised holy hell after what I saw and nobody did a effing thing about it. I am talking about slamming door behind me raising 9 kinds of hell shouting match with my boss. Nobody would allow that can of worms to be opened. I was set on course to catch this bad cop on video and let it out to the public when all of a sudden his own doings got him in a world of hurt. His K9 program vanished. Since then I became more aware of what has been happening.

I have read up on failure rates/ success rates (Depends on how you choose to see it). If you're the handler, you call it a success rate. If you're not a handler, its a failure rate. The supreme court's decision on failure rates are too low for my liking, when considering what is at stake here. I don't see dope getting away on a stop as what is at stake. The 4th is what is at stake. Each and every God given right should be coveted by everyone, including law dogs. We can not give up a thread of our freedoms. That is very dangerous for us.

The last part has disturbed me for a long time. We have police kicking in doors across the nation for weed. At the same time one can go to the local store, bar, restaurant ect and get a legal drug, alcohol. Have you ever noticed people describe the two differently, drugs and alcohol. They are the same thing. If you induce a chemical that will alter your mental and physical faculties, its a drug. The government used to kick in doors for the drug we know as alcohol. Then all of a sudden it was OK and they turned to the drug we call marijuana. What a ride that has been, what an absolute failure that has been.

The most mind blowing thing is the medical use people could have had all along. The opinions are slowly starting to change but at what expense? The government started a a campaign against marijuana and it was absolutely effective for 75 years. That is changing rapidly now and thank goodness. Stop spending our tax dollars on this bullcrap called the war on drugs.

So from an old and **** near retired cop, take this advice or leave it. Learn your God given rights and what they mean. Use them because you can bet your arse a soldier died to give you those rights. Men were butchered throughout our history to give you the chance to exercise your rights. It is my true belief that at the very least we owe them, is to exercise our rights. Coming from a lawman, respectfully decline any searches, exercise your right to speak or not to speak. To me that is being a good citizen. It is our duty to keep the government in check. If we allow a slow creeping onto our rights, the very foundation of this nation will crumble.


For your viewing pleasure

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-court-drug-dog-thats-barely-more-accurate-than-a-coin-flip-is-good-enough/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2ed133fa343a

[Burnadell]

bukkskins thread got this one rolling. I am not giving my input just yet. Curious to see what yall have to say in reference to a search of your vehicle.

Some of you seem to know a bit more then others. One hint. Operating a motor vehicle in Texas or this Country is a privilege not a right. Hope that helps.

Almost there..........but not quite. Your on to something I will say that.

...waiting.

[jshouse]

I am fairly sure this will rustle a few feathers but what the he!! I been a lawman for a minute or two. I am also a professional dog trainer. I do not like the use of K9 searches for dope. I used to be a "Your arse is jail bound for any usable amount" kind of police. I was police before the term "Usable amount" was introduced. My pendulum has swung all the way to the opposite side.

There are multiple reasons why I don't like the use of k9. One is from my personal experience with an officer and his K9. This was not hear say, it was with my own eyeballs I witnessed. This officer was a flat out lying POS. I raised holy hell after what I saw and nobody did a effing thing about it. I am talking about slamming door behind me raising 9 kinds of hell shouting match with my boss. Nobody would allow that can of worms to be opened. I was set on course to catch this bad cop on video and let it out to the public when all of a sudden his own doings got him in a world of hurt. His K9 program vanished. Since then I became more aware of what has been happening.

I have read up on failure rates/ success rates (Depends on how you choose to see it). If you're the handler, you call it a success rate. If you're not a handler, its a failure rate. The supreme court's decision on failure rates are too low for my liking, when considering what is at stake here. I don't see dope getting away on a stop as what is at stake. The 4th is what is at stake. Each and every God given right should be coveted by everyone, including law dogs. We can not give up a thread of our freedoms. That is very dangerous for us.

The last part has disturbed me for a long time. We have police kicking in doors across the nation for weed. At the same time one can go to the local store, bar, restaurant ect and get a legal drug, alcohol. Have you ever noticed people describe the two differently, drugs and alcohol. They are the same thing. If you induce a chemical that will alter your mental and physical faculties, its a drug. The government used to kick in doors for the drug we know as alcohol. Then all of a sudden it was OK and they turned to the drug we call marijuana. What a ride that has been, what an absolute failure that has been.

The most mind blowing thing is the medical use people could have had all along. The opinions are slowly starting to change but at what expense? The government started a a campaign against marijuana and it was absolutely effective for 75 years. That is changing rapidly now and thank goodness. Stop spending our tax dollars on this bullcrap called the war on drugs.

So from an old and **** near retired cop, take this advice or leave it. Learn your God given rights and what they mean. Use them because you can bet your arse a soldier died to give you those rights. Men were butchered throughout our history to give you the chance to exercise your rights. It is my true belief that at the very least we owe them, is to exercise our rights. Coming from a lawman, respectfully decline any searches, exercise your right to speak or not to speak. To me that is being a good citizen. It is our duty to keep the government in check. If we allow a slow creeping onto our rights, the very foundation of this nation will crumble.


For your viewing pleasure
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.2ed133fa343a

I respect your opinion and congrats on the coming retirement

Do you feel the same about cocaine, meth and heroin? Should we just give up on trying to get it off the street? Should we (officers) stand up in the name of our rights and stop asking to search vehicles?

I see your point, and feel the same about marijuana for the most part, but in the end I know there are "bad guys" carrying pounds/kilos of drugs through my city every day and feel they need to be dealt with.

Whats funny is that I seized hundreds of pounds of weed on consent searches and didn't start getting denials until I got the k9.

[125Dad]

...waiting.

Maybe the search did not go well.

[flyby]

I am fairly sure this will rustle a few feathers but what the he!! I been a lawman for a minute or two. I am also a professional dog trainer. I do not like the use of K9 searches for dope. I used to be a "Your arse is jail bound for any usable amount" kind of police. I was police before the term "Usable amount" was introduced. My pendulum has swung all the way to the opposite side.

There are multiple reasons why I don't like the use of k9. One is from my personal experience with an officer and his K9. This was not hear say, it was with my own eyeballs I witnessed. This officer was a flat out lying POS. I raised holy hell after what I saw and nobody did a effing thing about it. I am talking about slamming door behind me raising 9 kinds of hell shouting match with my boss. Nobody would allow that can of worms to be opened. I was set on course to catch this bad cop on video and let it out to the public when all of a sudden his own doings got him in a world of hurt. His K9 program vanished. Since then I became more aware of what has been happening.

I have read up on failure rates/ success rates (Depends on how you choose to see it). If you're the handler, you call it a success rate. If you're not a handler, its a failure rate. The supreme court's decision on failure rates are too low for my liking, when considering what is at stake here. I don't see dope getting away on a stop as what is at stake. The 4th is what is at stake. Each and every God given right should be coveted by everyone, including law dogs. We can not give up a thread of our freedoms. That is very dangerous for us.

Not sure how much you keep up with K9 case law or training methods, but yes, things have changed over the years.
Due to case law we have changed how we train. One example- one person hides dope in a room. Handler and K9 obviously don't know where it's at.
Handler and K9 ONLY enter room- person who hid dope stays outside with door closed. When handler calls alert the person who hid the dope looks in to confirm. This way the handler can't cue the dog, and the person who hid the dope can't cue the handler.

I agree that a higher standard should be put on K9 accuracy and certification.
That being said, at last check my dog was about 98% in training and 86% on the street. The courts recognize training as being more accurate because it's done under controlled conditions. Example- Joe Blow takes 2 lbs of weed to his buddies house. I stop Joe on his way home. My dog alerts but we don't find anything. Joe lies and says never any dope in his car. Was the dog wrong? Nope, the dog alerts to odor of narcotics, not narcotics themselves.


The last part has disturbed me for a long time. We have police kicking in doors across the nation for weed. At the same time one can go to the local store, bar, restaurant ect and get a legal drug, alcohol. Have you ever noticed people describe the two differently, drugs and alcohol. They are the same thing. If you induce a chemical that will alter your mental and physical faculties, its a drug. The government used to kick in doors for the drug we know as alcohol. Then all of a sudden it was OK and they turned to the drug we call marijuana. What a ride that has been, what an absolute failure that has been.

Going to go with J House on this one- feel the same about heroin, meth, coke, GHB, PCP? In my experience 80+% of the time I've found these drugs there was MJ with them. Is that saying some people don't just use weed? No, but on the others there is almost always a correlation with weed.

The most mind blowing thing is the medical use people could have had all along. The opinions are slowly starting to change but at what expense? The government started a a campaign against marijuana and it was absolutely effective for 75 years. That is changing rapidly now and thank goodness. Stop spending our tax dollars on this bullcrap called the war on drugs.

So from an old and **** near retired cop, take this advice or leave it. Learn your God given rights and what they mean. Use them because you can bet your arse a soldier died to give you those rights. Men were butchered throughout our history to give you the chance to exercise your rights. It is my true belief that at the very least we owe them, is to exercise our rights. Coming from a lawman, respectfully decline any searches, exercise your right to speak or not to speak. To me that is being a good citizen. It is our duty to keep the government in check. If we allow a slow creeping onto our rights, the very foundation of this nation will crumble.


For your viewing pleasure
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.2ed133fa343a

Agree to disagree on most, but your entitled to your views. I also will retire in the next few years, but have been eligible for awhile.

[DTala]

So, who's going to step up?

It's really not that uncommon to have an alert and not find anything. Talking to the occupants afterwards usually validates the alert ("We smoked a blunt in there a few hours ago" type of thing). Don't get upset when nothing is found, but always appreciate the honesty to validate the alert.

My Mal, Taz, alerted on the gas cap of a vehicle in a school parking lot when I was assisting the local SO. Got the owner(kid) out of class to open the car. We found no drugs so I questioned the kid. I asked him where he bought gas that morning. He asked how I knew he bought gas? I told him after he and his buddies smoked a joint they stopped for gas and he left drug residue on the gas cap. His eyes got big as he realized I knew I was right.

[CEO]

So what if you are part of the 14% that the dog alerts on and there are no drugs in the car? If you tear the car up searching and don't find anything is the city/state responsible for the damage or is it time for the driver to lawyer up?

I had a week old F150 in high school that a dog alerted to. Turns out he really wanted the honeybun my buddy threw in the bed. I asked who is responsible for the scratched up tailgate from the dog climbing in the back. "You're SOL" was the response.

[mmoses]

I respect your opinion and congrats on the coming retirement

Do you feel the same about cocaine, meth and heroin? Should we just give up on trying to get it off the street? Should we (officers) stand up in the name of our rights and stop asking to search vehicles?

I see your point, and feel the same about marijuana for the most part, but in the end I know there are "bad guys" carrying pounds/kilos of drugs through my city every day and feel they need to be dealt with.

Whats funny is that I seized hundreds of pounds of weed on consent searches and didn't start getting denials until I got the k9.

You took an oath to stand up for those rights. You decide what that means to you.

If someone refuses to give up those right, well it should be their right to do it. I dont care what the supreme court says I do not believe a dog or probable cause is a good reason to search someone's property without a warrant.

Personally, I will never submit to a search and wont give ID for a random stop(not driving a vehicle)

[kumathebear]

These threads make me chuckle.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

x'2! I wonder the "original" reason and certainly laugh at some responses!