I have a protein feed question/observation

[TKK]

I have been fortunate to manage a high end LF south texas ranch for years.

We feed protein and cottonseed.

IMO they are both SUPPLEMENTAL FEEDS and called that for a reason.

During severe drought? I think they both are worth every penny.

During times when the ranch habitat is good? We have looked through thousands upon thousands of trail camera pics. We run 20-30 cameras. We set our cameras to 2 shots every 5 minutes. In most all cases the bucks are there five minutes or less IF the bigger bucks show up at the feeder at all. How much protein can an animal ingest in 5 minutes or less?

Compare that to a buck browsing natural habitat all day or a food plot? He has to ingest much more protein in either setting does he not?

As a side note ........... if a person has unlimited funds and can place a protein feeder in a semi-controlled setting (partially HF) and place multiple protein feeders every 100 acres or so then that is a different situation. In this case you created a basic feed lot so no doubt protein is worth the cost (even though most hunters cannot afford to do so)

So my observation comes from many years of being in the middle of this - at times I cannot help but wonder if the entire protein feeding phenomena is worth the cost? Maybe just feed it when there are drought situations? Open for input.

Final comment is this - the cameras do not lie - bucks at feeders for long periods is highly unusual

[hchntr]

I hunt lowfence ~500acres.
Llano county
Last year we put up a pen around our protein feeders to keep the hogs away. I can tell you that many times the camera showed more deer in and around the protein pen than we ever see at a corn feeder at one time. Some of those deer that were at the protein before season never showed up on camera or in person at corn feeders throughout the season.


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[mikemorvan]

I guess i don't understand what your question / observation is.

My observation is that deer eat protein when they want it. When they want it, to the extent it (protein) is available, they eat all they want. But, they'll always prefer green stuff. No matter what, they've only got so much stomach space and can only eat so much.

[TKK]

I guess i don't understand what your question / observation is.

My observation is that deer eat protein when they want it. When they want it, to the extent it (protein) is available, they eat all they want. But, they'll always prefer green stuff. No matter what, they've only got so much stomach space and can only eat so much.

please re-read my post - why would thousands upon thousands of camera pictures show bucks at a feeder for five minutes or less? Do your cameras show them there for 15 minutes or more consuming piles of the protein? If they do they that is awesome - we are free range in south texas and they do not stay at feeders long = I am not trying to start an argument - just looking for logical answers to what I have witnessed over many years

[TKK]

[QUOTE=hchntr;13319766]I hunt lowfence ~500acres.
Llano county
Last year we put up a pen around our protein feeders to keep the hogs away. I can tell you that many times the camera showed more deer in and around the protein pen than we ever see at a corn feeder at one time. Some of those deer that were at the protein before season never showed up on camera or in person at corn feeders throughout the season.

How long were your deer staying at the protein feeder on average?

[mikemorvan]

please re-read my post - why would thousands upon thousands of camera pictures show bucks at a feeder for five minutes or less? Do your cameras show them there for 15 minutes or more consuming piles of the protein? If they do they that is awesome - we are free range in south texas and they do not stay at feeders long = I am not trying to start an argument - just looking for logical answers to what I have witnessed over many years

Certainly not arguing either. Now i see your question. I'd say, in your environment, it takes the deer five minutes or less to eat all the supplemental feed they care to consume. I've never been able to hunt South Texas. But from what i've read of the native browse & habitat, i think my thought makes sense. Just postulation though.

[TKK]

Certainly not arguing either. Now i see your question. I'd say, in your environment, it takes the deer five minutes or less to eat all the supplemental feed they care to consume. I've never been able to hunt South Texas. But from what i've read of the native browse & habitat, i think my thought makes sense. Just postulation though.

And I agree - they eat all they care to consume in five minutes or less - if that is the case how much can that consumption truly add to their horn growth? That is the essence of my question

[Porterhouse]

Are your protein feeders close to your corn feeders? Your mature bucks will spend more time at your protein feeders if your protein feeders are nowhere near the corn feeders you hunt over and kill other deer under.



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[bphillips]

Lots of my deer would stay 30mins to an hour. They won’t sit and eat the whole time but they’re back and forth. This is wet years with good browse BUT it’s not S Tx quality brush either

[Ironman]

Different regions would be different from each other, I would think. In lush, green, dense vegetation, deer wouldn't have to move far at all to eat at any time. They also don't have the unobstructed features as some more arid places. Deer down south probably have more, and more accessible feeders to chose from. I'm sure natural browse is preferred in either case.

[mikemorvan]

And I agree - they eat all they care to consume in five minutes or less - if that is the case how much can that consumption truly add to their horn growth? That is the essence of my question

Yeah, i got nothin' on that question. Common sense says not much. Maybe the Kleberg Institute has done research on that question??

But, if it's a 5% increase in antler size, that turns a 143" deer into a 150" deer.

Good luck cyphering it out.

[elgato]

I think your observations are interesting.Living on a farm here in La. I watch the bucks all summer. Its fun to watch a bachelor group come to a protein feeder eat a little shift positions walk away, walk back and so forth. Pecking order in full display. I have a feeder per about 60 acres here feeding pellets from January - August .{ When acorns hit the ground deer stop the protein completely} The deer also have access to significant ag. so eating pellets is completely voluntary and by their choice.

With all that said I think your 5 mins is fairly accurate. maybe a bit more. What I see is that they eat what they want milling around the feeder maybe for 15 mins but much less time with mouth actually in the spout. Then they drift off to the fields to graze.

My strictly unscientific, unmeasured, unverifiable, observation is that the pellets add 10-15% to antler quality. I believe they get a very high quality easily digestible ration complete with vitamins, minerals, probiotic,& digestives that makes a nice compliment to their daily nutritional needs. All that in about 5 mins.

I don't run enough cameras in Mexico to offer any valuable assessment. But from watching the bucks visually I suspect the same holds true there. That excepting as the rut drags on when I've watched bucks hit the pen and camp out for a while. Easy meal for an exhausted hungry deer.

[hchntr]

[quote=TKK;13319813]

I hunt lowfence ~500acres.

Llano county

Last year we put up a pen around our protein feeders to keep the hogs away. I can tell you that many times the camera showed more deer in and around the protein pen than we ever see at a corn feeder at one time. Some of those deer that were at the protein before season never showed up on camera or in person at corn feeders throughout the season.



How long were your deer staying at the protein feeder on average?

Unfortunately I didn’t pay attention to that.
in the off-season we run all 5 of our corn feeders, as well as our protein station and by far the bucks regularly hit the protein over the corn and in numbers that we typically don’t see at the corn feeders. If this makes any sense.
So I guess for us, regardless of the amount of time they spend there, they are utilizing it more than corn.


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[Kdog]

Personally I think habitat rules so I agree with you it is supposed to be a supplement.

One impact that I feel gets ignored is the doe factor. If a doe has access to to the best nutrition (supplemental protein feed) she is going to produce a better buck fawn. If she has protein (designed for deer) available and she is eating it the buck will grow better while inside and have access to better milk once he is born. There is a study out there that shows this, but for the life of me I cannot find it.

I feel it also has a great impact on your fawn recruitment, so you end up with more deer than you would otherwise.

Personally I think there should be as much focus (if not more) on habitat as feeding. But it is easier in a lot of cases to just pour on the feed than to look at your habitat and take steps to make it better. And in some cases there are limits to what you can do. I made my first serious attempt at putting in a significant food plot (although small by most standards, like around 1 acre total) this year in Kinney county. Problem is it hasn't rained since I planted it about 7 weeks ago, even though there has been rain in the forecast and several times when it should have rained but we missed it. At the end of the day though I know that creating the edge habitat will pay off because something will grow there eventually.

Those are just my thoughts, anecdotal for the most part.

[TKK]

I think your observations are interesting.Living on a farm here in La. I watch the bucks all summer. Its fun to watch a bachelor group come to a protein feeder eat a little shift positions walk away, walk back and so forth. Pecking order in full display. I have a feeder per about 60 acres here feeding pellets from January - August .{ When acorns hit the ground deer stop the protein completely} The deer also have access to significant ag. so eating pellets is completely voluntary and by their choice.

With all that said I think your 5 mins is fairly accurate. maybe a bit more. What I see is that they eat what they want milling around the feeder maybe for 15 mins but much less time with mouth actually in the spout. Then they drift off to the fields to graze.

My strictly unscientific, unmeasured, unverifiable, observation is that the pellets add 10-15% to antler quality. I believe they get a very high quality easily digestible ration complete with vitamins, minerals, probiotic,& digestives that makes a nice compliment to their daily nutritional needs. All that in about 5 mins.

I don't run enough cameras in Mexico to offer any valuable assessment. But from watching the bucks visually I suspect the same holds true there. That excepting as the rut drags on when I've watched bucks hit the pen and camp out for a while. Easy meal for an exhausted hungry deer.

.

Very thoughtfull answer. Thanks. Makes sense