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-   -   The Tax Reform Bill.......... (https://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=675032)

Tbar 12-19-2017 10:06 AM

The Tax Reform Bill..........
 
What do y'all think about it?

The main street media is doing a good job telling the American people it is bad bill.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/19/politi...ows/index.html

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-ins...oll_US_121817/

Landrover 12-19-2017 10:10 AM

Actually, FOX was just beating up on it also. Oops, they are part of the mainstream media.;) I digress, it is going to be extremely interesting how the ingredients get mixed today on the hill. Going to be lots of sketchy changes before the VOTE tonight or tomorrow. Stay tuned and take your lumps as they come!

Man 12-19-2017 10:25 AM

CNN says only 35% of Americans approve this bill....its plastered across the TV screen.

Landrover 12-19-2017 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man (Post 13027346)
CNN says only 35% of Americans approve this bill....its plastered across the TV screen.

It was 50/50 or so yesterday on two polls.
It will be dang interesting to see how this shakes out between this hour and the vote..............we probably wont be overly thrilled as common citizens but we can hope for the BEST! I still wonder if taxes will be able to be done on a POSTCARD???

Gunnyart 12-19-2017 10:49 AM

It'll allow them to all retreat to their respective corners and demonize each other while claiming they tried. I suppose it's better than nothing for the most part but I'm not expecting to be thrilled by any of it.

huntmaster 12-19-2017 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnyart (Post 13027452)
It'll allow them to all retreat to their respective corners and demonize each other while claiming they tried. I suppose it's better than nothing for the most part but I'm not expecting to be thrilled by any of it.

yep, that's what I think also

texasnavy05 12-19-2017 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnyart (Post 13027452)
It'll allow them to all retreat to their respective corners and demonize each other while claiming they tried.

nail on the head



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Tbar 12-19-2017 12:32 PM

If those tax calculators are correct it will save me some money........ ;)b

Charles 12-19-2017 03:49 PM

I'm trying to figure out why everyone says it's horrible. Is it not a large enough tax cut for the actual tax payers?

Russ79 12-19-2017 03:50 PM

The House passed the bill with the Senate voting tonight. Of course, no Democrats voted for it. Why is it bad for us to be able to keep more of the money we earned?? I would love to talk to some of the these Democrats and ask if they really believe this is bad for America or if they are just voting the way Schumer and Pelosi tell them to vote. I am so tired of them characterizing it as a tax break for the wealthy. Folks seem to have a disconnect between dollars and percentages. If I pay $1000 in taxes and get to keep 10% of that then that is $100. If I pay $100,000 in taxes and get to keep 10% then I keep $10,000- more money but the same percentage. I have no problem with the rich 10% that pay 71 percent of the taxes getting to keep more of their money. Cut back on the entitlements and we can fund the government. I personally believe in a flat tax- everyone paying the same amount, percentage wise, even the folks that make too little to have to pay taxes now- then they have some skin in the game. Folks that don't have to pay taxes and getting back money/refund due to tax breaks is mindless.

Triple 7 12-19-2017 04:10 PM

If the MSM is against it, then that's all that I need to know. Sounds like a great deal to me.

Shane 12-19-2017 04:55 PM

It would be better if they confiscated even less of our money than they will with this new tax law. But if they keep a little bit less than they would have after this change, it's a win. The media and the Dems are lying about it (as usual).

CEO 12-19-2017 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple 7 (Post 13028555)
If the MSM is against it, then that's all that I need to know. Sounds like a great deal to me.

Exactly. The fact Pelosi is having a literal conniption fit tells me this has to be good.

ladrones 12-19-2017 09:58 PM

Here is what the media wants to know.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c0dbf1dc04.jpg


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muzzlebrake 12-20-2017 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladrones (Post 13029670)
Here is what the media wants to know.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c0dbf1dc04.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I say YES
The more money he gets to keep the more people he can hire. Win win
Idiot liberals don't understand how things work and don't want to. They just follow. They do not lead.

JonBoy 12-20-2017 08:34 AM

I'm all for a tax cut, so long as there's an equal spending cut to go along with it...problem is there isn't and this just further increases our federal deficit. I'll probably end up slightly ahead on this but I'd really like to see a pairing down in government spending across the board.

Landrover 12-20-2017 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13030322)
I'm all for a tax cut, so long as there's an equal spending cut to go along with it...problem is there isn't and this just further increases our federal deficit. I'll probably end up slightly ahead on this but I'd really like to see a pairing down in government spending across the board.

In for the WIN!;)b You definitely caught the part where our spending/debt had already exploded with the last two administrations .......and....will continue based on the projections.
The casino bet is that our economy can generate enough cash to carry both sides of the accounting ledger. I for one really truly hope it is a winning bet!!! (even though a flat tax type of system is much cleaner) Everything changes financially and socially when the economy is running on all cylinders.;)
It appears I "may" come out ahead as a individual with a small business also, but right now my CPA is as confused as everybody discussing potential details. Details are FEW and that is where the rubber meets the road.:eek:

SaltwaterSlick 12-20-2017 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landrover (Post 13030386)
In for the WIN!;)b You definitely caught the part where our spending/debt had already exploded with the last two administrations .......and....will continue based on the projections.
The casino bet is that our economy can generate enough cash to carry both sides of the accounting ledger. I for one really truly hope it is a winning bet!!! (even though a flat tax type of system is much cleaner) Everything changes financially and socially when the economy is running on all cylinders.;)
It appears I "may" come out ahead as a individual with a small business also, but right now my CPA is as confused as everybody discussing potential details. Details are FEW and that is where the rubber meets the road.:eek:

Yep, I'm waiting for the detials... My company Is a Sub:C so IF I make any money this next year, I'll get to keep more of it... And with that and the anticipated growth I'm forecasting, at least I'll be able to budget for it... That'll mean more people, more inventory, more equipment... All of which generate revenue for my company, but also will generate more tax revenue for the gubment... More people to pay income tax, more inventory for our county and school district to tax me on, more equipment which will also generate more taxable personal property of the business... Yes, hopefully, my company will make more money, but the gubment will still get more too... In a nutshell, that's how it's supposed to work... The libtard's way that the DemoKrauts want is just to keep taking more and more from my company until I give up and send everybody home... That puts more people on the gubment dole, more gubment medical care, more money needed by the gubment... sooner or later they'll run out of other people's money... That's how the Dem's system works...

Shane 12-20-2017 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13030322)
I'm all for a tax cut, so long as there's an equal spending cut to go along with it...problem is there isn't and this just further increases our federal deficit. I'll probably end up slightly ahead on this but I'd really like to see a pairing down in government spending across the board.

I'd LOVE to see massive government spending cuts as well. But your assumption about cuts in the tax rate automatically translating into higher deficits is assuming a zero-sum game where reduced tax rates have zero effect on the economy and people's and corporations' behavior. If that were true, and the only thing that changed after a tax cut was the percentage of all the income that the government took, then you'd be correct. But when people and corporations get to keep more of what they earn, then that incentivizes and allows more economic growth. The pie gets bigger. So even though the government is taking a slightly lower percentage of what we all earn, we're earning and creating more to start with. And the actual tax REVENUE the government takes in gets bigger too. It's possible, even likely, that deficits will decrease as a result of a tax cut, even without the cuts in government spending that should also be happening, regardless of whatever the tax rates are.

Landrover 12-20-2017 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltwaterSlick (Post 13030975)
Yep, I'm waiting for the detials... My company Is a Sub:C so IF I make any money this next year, I'll get to keep more of it... And with that and the anticipated growth I'm forecasting, at least I'll be able to budget for it... That'll mean more people, more inventory, more equipment... All of which generate revenue for my company, but also will generate more tax revenue for the gubment... More people to pay income tax, more inventory for our county and school district to tax me on, more equipment which will also generate more taxable personal property of the business... Yes, hopefully, my company will make more money, but the gubment will still get more too... In a nutshell, that's how it's supposed to work... The libtard's way that the DemoKrauts want is just to keep taking more and more from my company until I give up and send everybody home... That puts more people on the gubment dole, more gubment medical care, more money needed by the gubment... sooner or later they'll run out of other people's money... That's how the Dem's system works...

Bingo!!! Subchapter C over here also Charlie . (-;
I gotta have specific details quickly to make the right moves. Got alot at stake thus not going to count my chickens until they hatch!!! So far I am very hopeful. Would like to increase from 31 employees to 40 if it makes sense.


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Hooverfb 12-20-2017 01:07 PM

So far I'm not sure we're getting any of the stuff that's actually beneficial. This smells like something they put together to appease democrats, not realizing thats a dumb game to play. I haven't checked accuracy, but they were saying the 25% tax bracket ia going to be from 45k-100k? Thatd robbery for the folks on the low end of that bracket. 45k is enough in some places, but not like its the high life that theycan just throw out another 10% to the government. I'm not seeing that we're gettig many of the tax benefits we were hoping for either, like being able to add deductions even if you meet the standard deductible. That was going to save me around 6-7k

JonBoy 12-20-2017 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane (Post 13030997)
I'd LOVE to see massive government spending cuts as well. But your assumption about cuts in the tax rate automatically translating into higher deficits is assuming a zero-sum game where reduced tax rates have zero effect on the economy and people's and corporations' behavior. If that were true, and the only thing that changed after a tax cut was the percentage of all the income that the government took, then you'd be correct. But when people and corporations get to keep more of what they earn, then that incentivizes and allows more economic growth. The pie gets bigger. So even though the government is taking a slightly lower percentage of what we all earn, we're earning and creating more to start with. And the actual tax REVENUE the government takes in gets bigger too. It's possible, even likely, that deficits will decrease as a result of a tax cut, even without the cuts in government spending that should also be happening, regardless of whatever the tax rates are.

You're making the assumption that the spending and growth will occur domestically. In fact many large corporations look for ways to drive down their product costs and many times the way to do that is to invest in capital equipment and labor outside of the U.S., which does little to nothing for our economy. You could argue that some of that money goes back in dividend payments and stock buybacks which puts money back in the hand of investors but when over half of corporate stocks are owned by foreign investors we again are putting that money to work outside of the U.S.

AZST_bowhunter 12-20-2017 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooverfb (Post 13031198)
So far I'm not sure we're getting any of the stuff that's actually beneficial. This smells like something they put together to appease democrats, not realizing thats a dumb game to play. I haven't checked accuracy, but they were saying the 25% tax bracket ia going to be from 45k-100k? Thatd robbery for the folks on the low end of that bracket. 45k is enough in some places, but not like its the high life that theycan just throw out another 10% to the government. I'm not seeing that we're gettig many of the tax benefits we were hoping for either, like being able to add deductions even if you meet the standard deductible. That was going to save me around 6-7k

That is the Obummer tax rate, I know because I am in it. I am at that lower end as well!!! I think they are dropping to 22% not to mention the + amount goes down about 800 dollars. Don't get me wrong I am not thrilled, Some are getting shafted, like if you made between 158K and 191K your taxes are going up by 4%.. But you can't please everyone! At least I am getting some kind of break. I am interested in seeing what it does for the company I work for, it's an S corp and is a family business, so we shall see..

Shane 12-20-2017 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13031590)
You're making the assumption that the spending and growth will occur domestically. In fact many large corporations look for ways to drive down their product costs and many times the way to do that is to invest in capital equipment and labor outside of the U.S., which does little to nothing for our economy. You could argue that some of that money goes back in dividend payments and stock buybacks which puts money back in the hand of investors but when over half of corporate stocks are owned by foreign investors we again are putting that money to work outside of the U.S.

That's the point of the reduction of the corporate tax rate. We've had the highest corporate tax rate in the world, so it's been really expensive for companies to do business in the US. By reducing the tax rate to 21%, it will now be a LOT cheaper for companies to do business in the US. Combine that with the tax cut for individuals, ending the Obamacare individual mandate that requires everybody to buy super expensive insurance even if they don't want it, and reduced government regulations that add a huge drag to the economy, and we'll see GDP growth accelerate much faster than it has in recent years. That means individuals will have more money in their pockets. We'll spend more. The businesses we buy from will see growth in their sales. They'll hire more people, build more facilities, buy new equipment (from other businesses)..... The pie gets bigger. There's more income for the government to confiscate a portion from. Tax revenue to the Treasury grows.....

JonBoy 12-20-2017 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane (Post 13031681)
That's the point of the reduction of the corporate tax rate. We've had the highest corporate tax rate in the world, so it's been really expensive for companies to do business in the US. By reducing the tax rate to 21%, it will now be a LOT cheaper for companies to do business in the US. Combine that with the tax cut for individuals, ending the Obamacare individual mandate that requires everybody to buy super expensive insurance even if they don't want it, and reduced government regulations that add a huge drag to the economy, and we'll see GDP growth accelerate much faster than it has in recent years. That means individuals will have more money in their pockets. We'll spend more. The businesses we buy from will see growth in their sales. They'll hire more people, build more facilities, buy new equipment (from other businesses)..... The pie gets bigger. There's more income for the government to confiscate a portion from. Tax revenue to the Treasury grows.....

You're exactly right...but they won't necessarily buy and invest here. Why hire production labor at $30/hr when you can get the same labor at 1/10th the cost overseas (or better yet replace that labor altogether with automation)? Same goes for equipment & production/factory real estate. I'm not saying businesses won't invest but just because their taxes are cheaper doesn't mean they're going to take that money and pour it back into the U.S. economy. They will reinvest in whatever maximizes their revenue and profit margins...and many times that doesn't mean buying American.

Ironman 12-20-2017 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13031698)
You're exactly right...but they won't necessarily buy and invest here. Why hire production labor at $30/hr when you can get the same labor at 1/10th the cost overseas (or better yet replace that labor altogether with automation)? Same goes for equipment & production/factory real estate. I'm not saying businesses won't invest but just because their taxes are cheaper doesn't mean they're going to take that money and pour it back into the U.S. economy. They will reinvest in whatever maximizes their revenue and profit margins...and many times that doesn't mean buying American.

Ok. So what is your solution?

Shane 12-20-2017 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooverfb (Post 13031198)
So far I'm not sure we're getting any of the stuff that's actually beneficial. This smells like something they put together to appease democrats, not realizing thats a dumb game to play. I haven't checked accuracy, but they were saying the 25% tax bracket ia going to be from 45k-100k? Thatd robbery for the folks on the low end of that bracket. 45k is enough in some places, but not like its the high life that theycan just throw out another 10% to the government. I'm not seeing that we're gettig many of the tax benefits we were hoping for either, like being able to add deductions even if you meet the standard deductible. That was going to save me around 6-7k

For a family of 4 with 2 young kids and earning $45K in Texas and paying $3,000 in property taxes, the tax cut will save them $1,401 according to the calculator here:

http://taxplancalculator.com/calc

Plug in your numbers to see what you might expect.

Chad_E 12-20-2017 03:58 PM

According to the numbers I plugged in I stand to save about $7k.

Now I hope they can start working on lowering the deficit from the budget side.

unclefish 12-20-2017 04:50 PM

Tax cuts already helping American workers.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/tax-...employees.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/fift...l-passage.html

westtexducks 12-20-2017 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13031698)
You're exactly right...but they won't necessarily buy and invest here. Why hire production labor at $30/hr when you can get the same labor at 1/10th the cost overseas (or better yet replace that labor altogether with automation)? Same goes for equipment & production/factory real estate. I'm not saying businesses won't invest but just because their taxes are cheaper doesn't mean they're going to take that money and pour it back into the U.S. economy. They will reinvest in whatever maximizes their revenue and profit margins...and many times that doesn't mean buying American.

So your saying you would rather see the status quo and continue to pay higher taxes just to stick it to the corporations because you would rather assume they will not spend money here? Trickle down economics works if we let, and we haven't attempted to let it work in years. We have had so many corporations leave in the last 20 years solely due to our ridiculously high corporate taxes it is crazy not to think that this wont help retain the ones that left and potentially bring some of them back. Look at Burger King for example.

Great reading for you and it is even from the Communist News Network which tells you something when they are even willing to admit our tax rate chases away business.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/27/news...xes/index.html

westtexducks 12-20-2017 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefish (Post 13031875)

And just like that trickle down economics at its finest.

SaltwaterSlick 12-20-2017 08:23 PM

I've already added 1 employee specifically because of the tax rollback. The new employee will start January 3, '18... Got at least one more in the budget for fiscal '18... Without this plan, that absolutely would not happen... I'm a small company, but I'm no different in structure from any other Sub: C corp... The numbers flat out are better for corporations of all sizes that do domestic business... Assuming their markets have the revenue potential to support the growth, This bill absolutely will grow businesses IN the USA.. It may ALSO grow the international portions of many corporations, but with the reduced tax rates, those corporations who have HQ's in the US will be able to bring that capital home and put it back to work...

ANYTHING the Repulsicans come up with is orders of magnitude ahead of the DemoKrauts... Heck, they want to take more from a shrinking base and ultimately will collapse upon itself when they run out of other people's money and credit fails so they can't just print more money... How ANYONE can support the DemoKraut economic philosophy is beyond me... well unless you're on the receiving end of their gimmies... Why the hell do you think they want to get all these illegal immigrants here the amnesty plan... Instant voters... If they'd stayed in power for two Hitlery terms, there'd have been nothing left to salvage... We aren't out of the woods by any means now either. If they (the whole dang gubment) don't reign in entitlements, we still won't survive... My fear is that we've gone too far down that road to turn back...

Shane 12-20-2017 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13031698)
You're exactly right...but they won't necessarily buy and invest here. Why hire production labor at $30/hr when you can get the same labor at 1/10th the cost overseas (or better yet replace that labor altogether with automation)? Same goes for equipment & production/factory real estate. I'm not saying businesses won't invest but just because their taxes are cheaper doesn't mean they're going to take that money and pour it back into the U.S. economy. They will reinvest in whatever maximizes their revenue and profit margins...and many times that doesn't mean buying American.

I'm not saying they'll close up all their operations in other countries and move everything to the US. But with this tax cut, the profit margins of doing business in the US just got a lot bigger. They'll do more here than they would do if the higher tax rates we've had up until now stayed in place.

DaveC 12-20-2017 10:36 PM

The above calculator shows I'll keep ~7k with the new plan.
(I'm not banking on it, but it would be nice no doubt. )

I started stabbing in random elevated numbers into the calculator and never saw where the savings wasn't on the positive side.

It might be there, but I didn't see it.

TxAg 12-20-2017 10:40 PM

https://www.kitces.com/blog/final-go...gh-strategies/

JonBoy 12-21-2017 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westtexducks (Post 13032310)
So your saying you would rather see the status quo and continue to pay higher taxes just to stick it to the corporations because you would rather assume they will not spend money here? Trickle down economics works if we let, and we haven't attempted to let it work in years. We have had so many corporations leave in the last 20 years solely due to our ridiculously high corporate taxes it is crazy not to think that this wont help retain the ones that left and potentially bring some of them back. Look at Burger King for example.

Great reading for you and it is even from the Communist News Network which tells you something when they are even willing to admit our tax rate chases away business.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/27/news...xes/index.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman (Post 13031713)
Ok. So what is your solution?

I'm saying I'd rather see the Republican party grow some stones and return to it's fiscal conservative-ness of old...you know, low tax AND low spend. A big problem is the Federal Government has gotten so bloated and such a large percentage of Americans' jobs & income are either directly (military, civil servants, entitlement programs [admins and recipients], etc.) or indirectly (federal contractors, regulators, etc.) tied to Government spending that as soon as a member of Congress starts talking about cutting services & spending everyone goes into job preservation mode, starts pointing fingers at everyone else and that Congress-person is hung out to dry. This is why the Republican party has dropped the low spend part of their platform and adopted the mantra of supply-side economics & trickle down theory.

There are a few "sacred cows" that members of Congress have learned not to touch if they want to have a prayer of becoming re-elected...defense spending (personnel and equipment), medicare/medicaid, other entitlement programs, and the existence/size/scope of every 3-letter agency under the federal umbrella. We need to face the hard reality that there will be an uptick in unemployment if we want to reduce the size of Government and there are a lot of people who are going to lose their jobs and lose federal income...and yes, that includes me! What I do know is that we can't continue to lower taxes on a hope and prayer that businesses will do the right things and grow our economy to make up for the shortfall in taxes...because it's a huge gamble and if it doesn't pay off we're just further increasing the deficit burden left for younger generations to deal with (like myself).

JonBoy 12-21-2017 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefish (Post 13031875)

Quote:

Originally Posted by westtexducks (Post 13032319)
And just like that trickle down economics at its finest.

Interesting that these companies would implement such large policy changes considering that these cuts haven't even gone into effect. Sounds like the best politics money can buy. Perhaps the timing of this was pre-negotiated between lawmakers & those companies to help spur public support for the bill? Also, I find it hugely convenient that AT&T & Comcast are going public with this...probably trying to shed some of that negative PR after spending hundreds of millions to lobby against NN.

Ironman 12-21-2017 08:57 AM

There's no doubt that spending cuts should happen. One of the worst things that has happened in recent years is The Patriot Act. What is the budget for DHS and the other 3 letter agencies that came into play, because of it? Not to mention the loss of liberties due to that one law. This was all done by a Republican President too. Starting with Bush #1, this country has been in a tailspin.

JonBoy 12-21-2017 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman (Post 13033338)
There's no doubt that spending cuts should happen. One of the worst things that has happened in recent years is The Patriot Act. What is the budget for DHS and the other 3 letter agencies that came into play, because of it? Not to mention the loss of liberties due to that one law. This was all done by a Republican President too. Starting with Bush #1, this country has been in a tailspin.

Bingo. I've long said that the 2 biggest failures of the last 20 years were the Patriot Act and Citizens United. The first was a huge erosion of the public's civil liberties and the second was the effective disenfranchisement of the public in favor of large corporations.

Part Timer 12-21-2017 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveC (Post 13032815)
The above calculator shows I'll keep ~7k with the new plan.
(I'm not banking on it, but it would be nice no doubt. )

I started stabbing in random elevated numbers into the calculator and never saw where the savings wasn't on the positive side.

It might be there, but I didn't see it.

Thats the thing about taxes a lot of people look over. If your in a bracket that looks like the percentage increased, then you still saved on the first bracket you went through.

Youre taxed per bracket. So lets say you make 150k a year. Youre taxed 15% on the first 50k, 23% on the next 50k and 25% on the last 50k. Its not one rate across the board. Thats where the liberals are having a fit saying the wealthy are still saving money. Of course they are, thats the way its always worked. Its rediculous they are trying to spin this negatively.

Its a win for everyone. They need to get over it.

(All numbers where fictional and for demonstration only)

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Black Ice 12-21-2017 09:16 AM

The Tax Reform Bill..........
 
When they say save will this be more money in my check each week or will I not have to write a check anymore?

Also when does this take place?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JonBoy 12-21-2017 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Ice (Post 13033377)
When they say save will this be more money in my check each week or will I not have to write a check anymore?

Also when does this take place?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the President signs the bill before the end of the year the bill will go into effect on January 1st. This means you won't see any differences in your tax returns until the Spring of 2019.

Landrover 12-21-2017 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13033238)
I'm saying I'd rather see the Republican party grow some stones and return to it's fiscal conservative-ness of old...you know, low tax AND low spend. A big problem is the Federal Government has gotten so bloated and such a large percentage of Americans' jobs & income are either directly (military, civil servants, entitlement programs [admins and recipients], etc.) or indirectly (federal contractors, regulators, etc.) tied to Government spending that as soon as a member of Congress starts talking about cutting services & spending everyone goes into job preservation mode, starts pointing fingers at everyone else and that Congress-person is hung out to dry. This is why the Republican party has dropped the low spend part of their platform and adopted the mantra of supply-side economics & trickle down theory.

There are a few "sacred cows" that members of Congress have learned not to touch if they want to have a prayer of becoming re-elected...defense spending (personnel and equipment), medicare/medicaid, other entitlement programs, and the existence/size/scope of every 3-letter agency under the federal umbrella. We need to face the hard reality that there will be an uptick in unemployment if we want to reduce the size of Government and there are a lot of people who are going to lose their jobs and lose federal income...and yes, that includes me! What I do know is that we can't continue to lower taxes on a hope and prayer that businesses will do the right things and grow our economy to make up for the shortfall in taxes...because it's a huge gamble and if it doesn't pay off we're just further increasing the deficit burden left for younger generations to deal with (like myself).

Hush now! U not supposed to understand what happens behind the curtain. Yes, deficit gambling is literally putting our nation at economic risk. Without reduced spending......across the board(defense, social, etc)......we are pissing in the wind!!! Can we trickle ourselves out of the debt.......doubt it......but that is the gamble we are rolling with!!! I'm in as obviously our elected officials can do no better, so we gotta ride this mule.

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Part Timer 12-21-2017 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13033384)
If the President signs the bill before the end of the year the bill will go into effect on January 1st. This means you won't see any differences in your tax returns until the Spring of 2019.

The way i understand it is you will see a differnce in your paycheck Jan 1st if it gets signed in. Maybe i read it wrong.

What makes you think you wont see a difference till you do your taxes? If the percentages change, your employer would withhold less from you check i thought.


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Landrover 12-21-2017 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13033347)
Bingo. I've long said that the 2 biggest failures of the last 20 years were the Patriot Act and Citizens United. The first was a huge erosion of the public's civil liberties and the second was the effective disenfranchisement of the public in favor of large corporations.

Oh, oh......u really stepped in it!!! U are much too perceptive!!! Yes, we have screwed ourselves with those. ......well not really. ......you notice nobody is attempting to repeal either??? It is no longer even a discussion in the halls of congress. Things that make you geaux.......hummmm!!!!

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JonBoy 12-21-2017 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Part Timer (Post 13033449)
The way i understand it is you will see a differnce in your paycheck Jan 1st if it gets signed in. Maybe i read it wrong.

What makes you think you wont see a difference till you do your taxes? If the percentages change, your employer would withhold less from you check i thought.


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If your overall tax liability goes down you may see a bump in your paycheck (taking less taxes out per paycheck) but when you file taxes is when you get to take advantage of things like the increase in standard deduction so I think the bigger chunk will come much later. Full disclosure...I'm not an accountant, just a lowly engineer lol. I'm going based on what I've been able to read online.

Landrover 12-21-2017 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Part Timer (Post 13033449)
The way i understand it is you will see a differnce in your paycheck Jan 1st if it gets signed in. Maybe i read it wrong.

What makes you think you wont see a difference till you do your taxes? If the percentages change, your employer would withhold less from you check i thought.


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Bloomberg Financial is saying February or March timeframe for "peasants and serfs" to see a difference! !! Corporations have obviously already acted by sending shots across the bow at AT&T and Comcast! (-;

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Part Timer 12-21-2017 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13033463)
If your overall tax liability goes down you may see a bump in your paycheck (taking less taxes out per paycheck) but when you file taxes is when you get to take advantage of things like the increase in standard deduction so I think the bigger chunk will come much later. Full disclosure...I'm not an account, just a lowly engineer lol. I'm going based on what I've been able to read online.

Oh ok. That makes sense, because i heard the standard deduction is getting increased also. So that all lines up with what you said.

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JonBoy 12-21-2017 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landrover (Post 13033458)
Oh, oh......u really stepped in it!!! U are much too perceptive!!! Yes, we have screwed ourselves with those. ......well not really. ......you notice nobody is attempting to repeal either??? It is no longer even a discussion in the halls of congress. Things that make you geaux.......hummmm!!!!

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"America has the best politicians money can buy" ~ Will Rogers :D ;)b

Landrover 12-21-2017 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBoy (Post 13033489)
"America has the best politicians money can buy" ~ Will Rogers :D ;)b

Touche' (-;

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