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G5-Maniac 11-13-2017 11:11 PM

Which would you choose
 
Very new to long range shooting and have been reading tons of info. I was leaning towards the 6.5 creedmoor but Iíve also thought about the 300 win mag and 7mag. Realistically max Iíd shoot hunting would be 500 with most shots closer to 100-200 yards. From what Iíve read is each of the three calibers I listed are all similar for what I want to do. Just indecisive I guess. Thanks


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rubicon51 11-13-2017 11:29 PM

Do the 300 win mag.
This recommendation is based off Chris Kyle's book, American Sniper, as he preferred this round over the .50 cal for long range shots as the ballistics were consistent.

texasnavy05 11-13-2017 11:31 PM

id do 6.5 cm. at those ranges it will perform great and a lot less recoil to induce flinching

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RifleBowPistol 11-13-2017 11:41 PM

I would prefer a 7 mm Winchester Short mag, but those are hard to find. The short fat cases result in more uniform burning of powder, so more consistent pressures, which result in more consistent velocity and accuracy. But I can tell you that a common 7 mm Rem Mag can shoot some very accurate groups, ballistically, it can be one serious rifle. If I was looking at doing a 30 caliber magnum, I would seriously consider the 300 Norma. My second choice for a 30 caliber magnum round would be the 300 Winchester Short Mag, again, because of the short fat case.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a pretty good little caliber for short action round. But it's not a magnum caliber, for a short action caliber, it has some pretty good potential. I may chamber one of my rifles for 6.5 Creedmoor. I was looking at doing a 6.5X47 Lapua, but it will cost me the same to do a Lapua or a Creedmoor. The Creedmoor has a little larger case and is a lot more common. So brass would be much easier to get. But the Lapua should produce very similar velocities and possibly slightly more accurate. But both rounds are probably extremely accurate, from what I can see of the case design.

-HIC- 11-13-2017 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G5-Maniac (Post 12923762)
Very new to long range shooting and have been reading tons of info. I was leaning towards the 6.5 creedmoor but Iíve also thought about the 300 win mag and 7mag. Realistically max Iíd shoot hunting would be 500 with most shots closer to 100-200 yards. From what Iíve read is each of the three calibers I listed are all similar for what I want to do. Just indecisive I guess. Thanks


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Are you hand loading or limited to off the shelf ammo?

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lungbuster1985 11-13-2017 11:55 PM

I would pick the 300wm. I just not a huge creedmore fan, even though it's great on paper. 7mag would be my distant 2nd choice. The only 7mag I've ever shot was an older Tupperware ruger and the recoil kinda ruined me on the round. Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them for what you are looking for. 300 Winchester Magnum just has a certain ring to it.

G5-Maniac 11-14-2017 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -HIC- (Post 12923834)
Are you hand loading or limited to off the shelf ammo?

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Off the shelf ammo unless I find someone that reloads in my area.


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Black Ice 11-14-2017 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G5-Maniac (Post 12923866)
Off the shelf ammo unless I find someone that reloads in my area.


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I was buying .300 win mag for around $17 or $18 abox at academy but they just went up to around $20 or $21.


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kmon 11-14-2017 12:43 AM

What are you hunting? Experience level with hard recoiling rifles?

If just hunting deer and hogs no need IMO for a magnum.
Recoil of a magnum unless you put a break or suppressor on it will limit shooting without undue punishment unless you are really accustomed to recoil, even then it becomes tiresome if you shoot a lot.
Ammo, there are custom manufactures that will ship ammo to you that is better than factory stuff and not much higher priced.

Sure the magnums work and flatten out trajectory to an extend and lessen wind calls if you use high BC bullets in them but the 7mm-08, Creedmoor, 260 and a host of others will get you there with much less punch to the shoulder and fatigue from shooting.

-HIC- 11-14-2017 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Ice (Post 12923869)
I was buying .300 win mag for around $17 or $18 abox at academy but they just went up to around $20 or $21.


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Factory gun running factory match ammo with stated 500 yard goal, the 6.5CM will be hard to beat. Easy on the pocketbook and your shoulder!

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-HIC- 11-14-2017 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -HIC- (Post 12923898)
Factory gun running factory match ammo with stated 500 yard goal, the 6.5CM will be hard to beat. Easy on the pocketbook and your shoulder!

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Sorry Black Ice, quoted the wrong post!

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Black Ice 11-14-2017 01:19 AM

Which would you choose
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by -HIC- (Post 12923898)
Factory gun running factory match ammo with stated 500 yard goal, the 6.5CM will be hard to beat. Easy on the pocketbook and your shoulder!

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I bought a 300 win mag that I can shoot all day. Honestly I would rather shoot my .300 win mag over my .243 Sako. The only gun that is more pleasant to shoot is my heavy barrel 22/250.


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G5-Maniac 11-14-2017 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmon (Post 12923896)
What are you hunting? Experience level with hard recoiling rifles?

If just hunting deer and hogs no need IMO for a magnum.
Recoil of a magnum unless you put a break or suppressor on it will limit shooting without undue punishment unless you are really accustomed to recoil, even then it becomes tiresome if you shoot a lot.
Ammo, there are custom manufactures that will ship ammo to you that is better than factory stuff and not much higher priced.

Sure the magnums work and flatten out trajectory to an extend and lessen wind calls if you use high BC bullets in them but the 7mm-08, Creedmoor, 260 and a host of others will get you there with much less punch to the shoulder and fatigue from shooting.



Plans for anything from hogs to elk eventually. Only rifle Iíve shot consistently is an old 30.06 my great grandfather had gave me which kicks pretty good. The guys Iím going to be shooting with have 300s and 7mags which Iíve shot theirs and recoil wasnít horrible.

Most Iíve seen to compare all three was the difference in recoil and cost of ammo.

500 yards is my goal but for target shooting 1000 would be awesome eventually. Which Iíve seen videos of the 6.5 doing.


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kmon 11-14-2017 02:42 AM

You have a good elk rifle with the 30-06, Creedmoor will do deer and hogs easily enough to 500 yards and targets to 1k. Heck in the past the 30-06 was used that far in matches.

For more fun shooting in longer sessions I would go with the Creedmoor and it has worked for many on elk, not sure I would trust past 400 but with the right bullet in the right place it will do the job. Most of the elk I have killed would have been just as dead from the Creedmoor as what I shot them with. The last elk I killed was shot at about 250 yards with a 6.5-284

trophy8 11-14-2017 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubicon51 (Post 12923804)
Do the 300 win mag.
This recommendation is based off Chris Kyle's book, American Sniper, as he preferred this round over the .50 cal for long range shots as the ballistics were consistent.

Come on now....


I'd take the 7 over the other 2. Only way that 300 will outrun the 300 is with the 200+ grain bullets. You won't tell the 7 and 300 apart at 500 though. Both are easily capable of 1 mile +. The creedmoor, while good for what it is, is not in the same ballpark as those 2.

For example on the 7....I'm running a 180 grain Berger at 3070 FPS. 5.3 mils at 1000 depending on elevation and pressure and wind. That 6.5 won't even come close to that.

Livin'2hunt 11-14-2017 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trophy8 (Post 12923954)
Come on now....


I'd take the 7 over the other 2. Only way that 300 will outrun the 300 is with the 200+ grain bullets. You won't tell the 7 and 300 apart at 500 though. Both are easily capable of 1 mile +. The creedmoor, while good for what it is, is not in the same ballpark as those 2.

For example on the 7....I'm running a 180 grain Berger at 3070 FPS. 5.3 mils at 1000 depending on elevation and pressure and wind. That 6.5 won't even come close to that.


This ^^^

I have owned five 300 Win Mags and I assure you, you do not want a long range day with one. Chris Kyle liked it from the choices he had which were limited (i.e. 5.56, 7.62x54, 300 WM, 338 Lapua). He also wrote, if he had more time behind the Lapua, that would have been his favorite. There is a difference in plinking steel all day long and a LR hunting rifle. If you are wanting to shoot long range on a regular basis, I would not go with any larger than a 7 Mag with a MB. Even at that, you will p*ss off your range buddies with the muzzle blast. You may want to consider a range rifle in a similar/identical configuration as your hunting rifle. One you can shoot a lot without hurting yourself and others. Decisions, decisions....

On another note, personally, I look at rifles [cartridges] like golf clubs. They all have their designed purposes and limitations. You wouldn't use a pitching wedge from the fairway at 230 yards from the green. You'll get there but it'll take a few shots.

.

gatorgrizz27 11-14-2017 07:33 AM

The road from being very new to long range shooting and not reloading, to killing an elk at 1,000 yards is a long one. Not bashing the OP, just pointing out that talking about Berger bullets and such doesn't matter right now. Most of those guys are also shooting several thousand $ custom rifles, with fast twist Krieger or Bartlein barrels, throated for specific bullets.

Get something that you will practice with a lot, and can afford to shoot and find ammo for. IMO, that's a 6.5 Creedmoor in the current market, with a number of accurate $500-$1,000 rifles and $20-$30/box match grade hunting ammo.

Put a quality scope with turrets on it, buy a laser rangefinder, and practice a bunch. In short order you'll be able to take a pig, deer, or antelope out to 500 yards, if you're a competent shooter.

If you get into it big time and want a longer range, big game hunting rifle, you can build one. You'll need to be reloading by that point too.

splitbeam145 11-14-2017 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorgrizz27 (Post 12924066)
The road from being very new to long range shooting and not reloading, to killing an elk at 1,000 yards is a long one. Not bashing the OP, just pointing out that talking about Berger bullets and such doesn't matter right now. Most of those guys are also shooting several thousand $ custom rifles, with fast twist Krieger or Bartlein barrels, throated for specific bullets.

Get something that you will practice with a lot, and can afford to shoot and find ammo for. IMO, that's a 6.5 Creedmoor in the current market, with a number of accurate $500-$1,000 rifles and $20-$30/box match grade hunting ammo.

Put a quality scope with turrets on it, buy a laser rangefinder, and practice a bunch. In short order you'll be able to take a pig, deer, or antelope out to 500 yards, if you're a competent shooter.

If you get into it big time and want a longer range, big game hunting rifle, you can build one. You'll need to be reloading by that point too.


Agree with this. It's expensive to get started with all the accessories that go along with a rifle on long range shooting. If you're not shooting any animals past 500yds but want to ring steel at 1000yds. Not reloading right now. And new to the game. I'd do a 6.5 CM 1st due to the light recoil and solid accuracy of off the shelf ammo. You can buy a $600 rifle to do what you want to do with it, but the money needs to be spent on a solid quality scope like a Leupold VX6 or Nightforce or something along those lines that has a good repeatable turret that you can trust. If later on when you get more comfortable with long range shooting and know for sure you're gonna do more of it and possibly start reloading then you could have a custom gun made with faster twist and better action in a 6.5x284, 7mag, 7LRM, 28 Nosler just to name a few that'll put elk size animals out to a 1000yds comfortably. FYI- I've shot elk out to 800yds with 6.5x284 with 140gr bergers. That's about my max range with the 6.5x284 on elk size animals, but it's deadly and much better than a 6.5 CM.
Good Luck;)b

Horitexan 11-14-2017 09:16 AM

Iíd just get the Creedmoor. All this, Ďbut one day Iíd like to.....í and, Ďbut if I decide to...í is pointless. If youíre just now getting into long range shooting and youíre planning to shoot/hunt and the distances you stated, get a rifle with minimal recoil that youíll shoot the heck out of. Just because you shot a few rounds from your buddyís 300wm doesnít mean youíre going to want to spend a day at the range shooting 50-100 rounds. I shoot 300wm and I can tell you I donít shoot it NEAR as much as I shoot my Creedmoor or my .260 - theyíre just flat-out more fun to shoot. I work on fundamentals with the lower recoil and, then, I may shoot 20 rounds with my 300wm. I have zero need for my 300wm unless Iím shooting elk and even then, I could do it with a .264 caliber just fine but the extra weight gives me some mental comfort. Thatís why Iím building a Switchlug 6.5SAUM/300wsm combo rifle. Lol. Plenty of people killing elk with .264 calibers including the Creedmoor. People will tell you recoil is no big deal but thatís silly. The same guy given both calibers will be able to shoot the Creedmoor (or similar) much more often than the 300 before shooter fatigue sets in. That doesnít mean you canít learn it shoot well with a 300, you can; itís just a LOT easier with a lower recoil round. Itís the old adage, ďwork smarter, not harder.Ē I can tell you that I track more deer for hunters using magnum calibers than non magnum and talking with other trackers and guides, itís extremely common to see guys with heavy recoil rifles making bad shots and itís a direct effect of recoil. Fact is, too many guys are comparing Ďsticksí with their buddies or the range crowd and thinking with their middle brains instead of with the one between their ears. In an effort to prove their Ďbig boysí they have a rifle that they shoot just enough to make sure itís sighted in. Iíll take a girl with a 22-250, .243 or 6.5 over a burly dude with his .300 any day of the week. Lol. Before some others get their panties in a bunch, Iím not slamming the .300wm, Iím just saying itís not what Iíd consider a good caliber for a beginning precision shooter.

As for the inevitable comparison to US military snipers who are using 300wm.....címon now. Lol! The needs of a military sniper in combat are incredibly different than the needs of a civilian shooter. We do not have to try and punch through a wall or window or body armor; nor do we have to disable a vehicle, etc. Not to mention the fact that they, at best, have a few calibers to choose from; and those choices do not include any 6.5mm or 7mm rounds. Itís funny that the people that make comparisons to the military shooters never mention that, when they shoot civilian non-ELR competitions (like PRS) they do NOT choose a .30 caliber round, they almost exclusively shoot 6.5mm and 6mm. These are guys who are experts at recoil management and certainly have no fear of recoil are choosing these low recoil calibers. I wonder why that is??? I wonder why the sniper fantasy guys never mention that? Lol! In fact, many of the top precision shooters have training rifles that are identical to their match rifles but are chambered in .223.

I fall into the trap of wanting to build that 1 magical gun that will do it all for me. Itís a fantasy, though. Sure, you can shoehorn a big heavy caliber into that role but you can do the same thing with a small caliber. I could kill an elk with a 22 Hornet if I had to and I could kill a coyote with a .338 Edge or .375 Addiction. Does that mean theyíre do-it all calibers? No. So, I say donít try and make 1 rifle work. Wrap your head around having 2-3 rifles for doing it all and buy/build for what you KNOW youíll shoot/hunt....not for what you ďmight.Ē Getting into LR shooting you donít even know what you donít know. I promise, youíre going to make changes as you gain experience. The likelihood that the rifle you start with will be the same one youíre shooting in 3 years (assuming you actually pursue this seriously) is about 1%. So, I say buy a rifle thatís easy and fun to shoot. Something that you can shoot ALL day and that you can afford to buy lots of ammo for. QUALITY MATCH GRADE AMMO. A 6.5cm or a .260 with Prime ammo fits that bill a lot better than a 300wm. Then, go out and shoot it A LOT!! there is no substitute for trigger pulls. In the end, itís ALL about precision and accuracy, IMO. If you can shoot a 4Ē group at 600yds, there isnít anything you canít DRT, with a 6.5 or a 300wm and proper bullet choice. With that kind of accuracy, the caliber (within reason) is largely irrelevant. I think itís easier to become a good shooter without the recoil. JMO.




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RifleBowPistol 11-14-2017 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G5-Maniac (Post 12923866)
Off the shelf ammo unless I find someone that reloads in my area.


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Accuracy is very important for long range shooting, factory loads are not going to be near as accurate as a properly loaded hand load. The factory loads are designed to function in a lot of different rifles, so the bullets are seated deeper than what is optimum for best accuracy. When only shooting at 100 yards to maybe 200 yards, factory loads work fine. But I would never count on factory loads out around 500 yards. Another factor that hurt accuracy of factory loads is the powder charge, factory loads are usually a little on the lighter side on the powder charge. Typically there is a lot of empty case in a factory load. That results in inconsistent burn rate, which produces inconsistent pressures, velocity and accuracy. Then also the powder charges in factory loads can vary more than what good hand loads can be loaded to.

I have not hunted with factory loads since I was probably 15 years old. Most factory ammo, you are doing good to get 1" groups at 100 yards, some will get down to close to 1/2" at 100 yards, but those would be much less common. Good hand loads, you can get a good rifle to shoot 3/8" or less typically. We used to have two Remington 700 Varmint rifles, wood stock heavy barrels. The first was in 308 Win., the only modifications to that gun, was a Timney trigger and a glass bedding job. I was able to work on the hand loads and get it to shoot center to center groups of .100" on average, sometimes a little smaller, some times a little larger. Later we bought another 700 Varmint in 22-250, all stock, except for a Timney trigger. Again, I was able to get that rifle down to .100" average group sizes at 100 yards. Then later I bought a Remington Sendero about the time they came out. I worked on the hand loads for it, only adjusted the stock trigger, no modifications otherwise to the rifle. That gun would shoot 3/8" groups at 200 yards. 100 yard groups looked like one bullet hole.

That is the kind of accuracy you should have, if you plan on taking longer shots, starting out with a rifle that shoots 3/4" to 1" groups at 100 yards, then think you are going to go shoot at animals at 500 yards, is not a good idea. Out in the field you have all types of other factors, moving targets, wind, not the best of rests, ect. You need a rifle that will produce very good accuracy at longer ranges. If you start off hunting at 500 yards or so, with a rifle that produces 1" 100 yard groups, you are taking a high risk of wounding animals on a regular basis. I have had pretty good success killing deer at long ranges, but I have always used a rifle that had very good accuracy and I shot at longer ranges often. I learned the bullet drop of my hand loads out as far as I could.

What I commonly see, is guys buy expensive rifles, some of which should produce very good accuracy, other I am not sure about. Then other guys have expensive custom rifles built, either way, they load factory ammo in the gun, take it out and it shoots 3/4" or so groups and they are all types of happy. Then they take it hunting and take long range shots and either miss or wound deer. The reasons they typically have problems at longer ranges, is the accuracy is not what it should be for very long range shots, then they don't ever shoot the rifle at longer ranges, till they actually go hunting. Commonly they really don't know the bullet drop of the exact round they are hunting with. Then another big problem, is they will practice and sight the rifle in with one type of ammo. Then run out and go find ammo, but what they find, is not the same. But you know, it is the same weight bullet, kind of looks the same and it's also one of the cool brand and type of ammo also, so it's good. But reality is, it could have a point of impact that is off 2" or so, then it may be more or less accurate. But they have no idea, because they have never shot the gun with that ammo, but that is what they will take to go hunting.

Tonight, I am going to start loading ammo for my two rifles, to get ready for a hunt later this month. I know one rifle should be dead on. I have the loads worked up for both rifles. I just need to load ammo. Then get back out to the range, to make sure everything is good. For the last two years, I have been hunting with a rifle that would not shoot under 1" groups, I have been very worried about using the rifle, but it is my main hunting rifle. At first, it shot 3/8" groups, I was not happy with those groups, but I decided to live with those groups till I could figure out why the **** gun would not shoot tighter groups. Then the scope died and the gun has never shot 3/8" groups again. I think I have finally found the problem, the barrel was very loose in the upper receiver. I replaced the upper receiver and lower and a few other parts, I have wanted to replace. I had .004" of play between the upper receiver and the barrel. That was not good for crap. I now have .0000" of play between the two parts. I think I am finally going to get some good groups out of the rifle. If so, I will finally feel comfortable shooting past 200 yards with the gun. Where I have been hunting, shots over 200 yards are a high possibility. But so far, I have not had a situation where I would need to take a shot over 200 yards.
My back up rifle will shoot 3/8" groups all day, but I just don't feel comfortable shooting that rifle. It's a very light rifle and very uncomfortable, very poorly designed stock. But even with it being so uncomfortable, I can still shoot 3/8" groups all day. The main rifle, is much heavier, feels like I should be able to make one hole groups all day long, but it has never been close to that. When I am shooting that rifle, it is rock solid, does not move around at all, very comfortable, but it would not shoot. A loose fitting barrel will do that. The caliber that gun is chambered for, I would say is good for about 500 yards without much problem. I now need to learn that rifle at longer ranges, if it finally shoots well.

Basically there is a lot more to just picking a caliber for long range shooting. You need good ammo, a good rifle that is capable of preferably 1/4" or less groups, when you are shooting it, not someone else. Then a gun you have lots of confidence shooting, one that is very steady. A feather weight rifle is not a good choice for long range shooting, yes, it can be accurate for a few shots before the barrel heats up, but another big problem with light rifles is, it is hard to hold a light rifle steady, much more so in heavy winds. For those reasons, my back up rifle has been a back up rifle and not a primary rifle, because it is very light and then the uncomfortable part, I don't feel like it should be a accurate rifle, but is has been quite a bit more accurate than my main rifle.

kmon 11-14-2017 11:33 AM

A long range setup is a system, rifle capable of the accuracy, Optics capable of the task, Ammo that is very consistent and the shooter. Reloads can be tuned to the rifle will be more consistent and accurate in that rifle.

There are businesses that will take your rifle and develop an accurate load tuned to it then make you more ammo to those specifications when you need more. There are a few of those around Texas, some custom smiths offer that for an accuracy load for a custom rifle as well. Not cheap but for someone that doesn't reload or have the time to load it works.

Balcones_Walker 11-14-2017 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horitexan (Post 12924341)
I fall into the trap of wanting to build that 1 magical gun that will do it all for me. Itís a fantasy, though.

Yes! The only "mistakes" I've ever made buying guns are the times I've tried to build do-it-alls. I have learned to fight that urge and specialize for every task.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horitexan (Post 12924341)
People will tell you recoil is no big deal but thatís silly.

Agreed. I highly recommend shooting a magnum or other cartridge with 20+ ft/lbs of recoil a few times before deciding to buy one. By the way, if you add on a brake you will NOT make friends with your neighboring stalls at the range.

I have a 7mm WBY and I love it. When your adrenaline is going in a hunting situation I don't even notice the kick. If I was going on an elk hunt it'd probably be my go-to. But taking it out for a long range day? No thanks.

kmon 11-14-2017 12:01 PM

On the recoil I have a couple light weight magnums that I got a concussion shooting them before I got a good recoil pad on them, no scope eye or anything but just from the fst jarring from the recoil.

I am not recoil shy but dang it adds up over time. Load workup has was a drawn out process for the 50BMG, more range trips than for any gun I have loaded for.

Texas89 11-14-2017 01:00 PM

For those ranges I would pick the 6.5 unless the animals you're planning to hunt are elk size or larger. Then I'd go 7 mag


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oneeye 11-14-2017 01:19 PM

Horitexan, great post!

175gr7.62 11-14-2017 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horitexan (Post 12924341)
Iíd just get the Creedmoor. All this, Ďbut one day Iíd like to.....í and, Ďbut if I decide to...í is pointless. If youíre just now getting into long range shooting and youíre planning to shoot/hunt and the distances you stated, get a rifle with minimal recoil that youíll shoot the heck out of. Just because you shot a few rounds from your buddyís 300wm doesnít mean youíre going to want to spend a day at the range shooting 50-100 rounds. I shoot 300wm and I can tell you I donít shoot it NEAR as much as I shoot my Creedmoor or my .260 - theyíre just flat-out more fun to shoot. I work on fundamentals with the lower recoil and, then, I may shoot 20 rounds with my 300wm. I have zero need for my 300wm unless Iím shooting elk and even then, I could do it with a .264 caliber just fine but the extra weight gives me some mental comfort. Thatís why Iím building a Switchlug 6.5SAUM/300wsm combo rifle. Lol. Plenty of people killing elk with .264 calibers including the Creedmoor. People will tell you recoil is no big deal but thatís silly. The same guy given both calibers will be able to shoot the Creedmoor (or similar) much more often than the 300 before shooter fatigue sets in. That doesnít mean you canít learn it shoot well with a 300, you can; itís just a LOT easier with a lower recoil round. Itís the old adage, ďwork smarter, not harder.Ē I can tell you that I track more deer for hunters using magnum calibers than non magnum and talking with other trackers and guides, itís extremely common to see guys with heavy recoil rifles making bad shots and itís a direct effect of recoil. Fact is, too many guys are comparing Ďsticksí with their buddies or the range crowd and thinking with their middle brains instead of with the one between their ears. In an effort to prove their Ďbig boysí they have a rifle that they shoot just enough to make sure itís sighted in. Iíll take a girl with a 22-250, .243 or 6.5 over a burly dude with his .300 any day of the week. Lol. Before some others get their panties in a bunch, Iím not slamming the .300wm, Iím just saying itís not what Iíd consider a good caliber for a beginning precision shooter.

As for the inevitable comparison to US military snipers who are using 300wm.....címon now. Lol! The needs of a military sniper in combat are incredibly different than the needs of a civilian shooter. We do not have to try and punch through a wall or window or body armor; nor do we have to disable a vehicle, etc. Not to mention the fact that they, at best, have a few calibers to choose from; and those choices do not include any 6.5mm or 7mm rounds. Itís funny that the people that make comparisons to the military shooters never mention that, when they shoot civilian non-ELR competitions (like PRS) they do NOT choose a .30 caliber round, they almost exclusively shoot 6.5mm and 6mm. These are guys who are experts at recoil management and certainly have no fear of recoil are choosing these low recoil calibers. I wonder why that is??? I wonder why the sniper fantasy guys never mention that? Lol! In fact, many of the top precision shooters have training rifles that are identical to their match rifles but are chambered in .223.

I fall into the trap of wanting to build that 1 magical gun that will do it all for me. Itís a fantasy, though. Sure, you can shoehorn a big heavy caliber into that role but you can do the same thing with a small caliber. I could kill an elk with a 22 Hornet if I had to and I could kill a coyote with a .338 Edge or .375 Addiction. Does that mean theyíre do-it all calibers? No. So, I say donít try and make 1 rifle work. Wrap your head around having 2-3 rifles for doing it all and buy/build for what you KNOW youíll shoot/hunt....not for what you ďmight.Ē Getting into LR shooting you donít even know what you donít know. I promise, youíre going to make changes as you gain experience. The likelihood that the rifle you start with will be the same one youíre shooting in 3 years (assuming you actually pursue this seriously) is about 1%. So, I say buy a rifle thatís easy and fun to shoot. Something that you can shoot ALL day and that you can afford to buy lots of ammo for. QUALITY MATCH GRADE AMMO. A 6.5cm or a .260 with Prime ammo fits that bill a lot better than a 300wm. Then, go out and shoot it A LOT!! there is no substitute for trigger pulls. In the end, itís ALL about precision and accuracy, IMO. If you can shoot a 4Ē group at 600yds, there isnít anything you canít DRT, with a 6.5 or a 300wm and proper bullet choice. With that kind of accuracy, the caliber (within reason) is largely irrelevant. I think itís easier to become a good shooter without the recoil. JMO.




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Listen to the above. I agree with 99% of it. In the grand scheme of things 500yds is not long range and you don't need anything special to kill deer out to that distance. I prefer the 300 WM just because I have so many years of experience with it and if I'm shooting deer inside 400yds a 243 with a quality bullet will do everything a 6.5CM will do (as far as the deer is concerned).

Shooting fundamentals are many times more important that the caliber you choose for 99% of recreational shooters. The "long range" game looks cool but in reality most people don't truly understand what is involved with it, have no where to even practice it, and if you were to get serious about it you won't be running a factory rifle or shooting off the shelf ammo very long. I tell folks when it comes to long range, the Indian is 90% of the game and the stick is the other 10%. You can own the baddest rig money can buy but if you can't make a good wind call, don't understand natural point of aim, natural pause, or grip/trigger fundamentals you are urinating in the wind.

westtexducks 11-14-2017 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Ice (Post 12923914)
I bought a 300 win mag that I can shoot all day. Honestly I would rather shoot my .300 win mag over my .243 Sako. The only gun that is more pleasant to shoot is my heavy barrel 22/250.


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How heavy is the rifle? Suppressor? Muzzle Brake? I can make a 50 BMG have less recoil than a .223 if I put enough weight into the gun plu s a brake. Can't just throw a statement out there when you have a custom gun that weighs 20 pounds with a brake, compared to a factory rifle that is only going to weigh 9 lbs and no brake.

kumathebear 11-14-2017 06:16 PM

6.5 for the distances you are quoting....

BLACKFINTURKEY 11-14-2017 07:29 PM

Creedmor all day. 300 is a lot of Gun.

Mike D 11-14-2017 08:09 PM

As much as I am anti Creedmoor, for what you are describing, get the Creedmoor.


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coop2564 11-14-2017 08:18 PM

7mmRM is the perfect gun for everything big game in North America!

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tdwinklr 11-14-2017 08:36 PM

just get a .270 Win ... Jack O'Connor was right, good enough for anything here. No one needs to be taking shots at 500 yds anyway. Is called hunting, not shooting.

Bear Charge 11-14-2017 08:38 PM

If you are recoil shy at all, 7mm mag and .300 will give you a flinch.

Bear Charge 11-14-2017 08:40 PM

Why not consider .270 or 3006?

G5-Maniac 11-15-2017 02:01 PM

Thanks for all the info guys.


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Killer Miller 11-15-2017 02:40 PM

I really like my Tikka 260. Its a lot like the creedmoor. I was shooting it out to 1000 yards a couple weeks ago.


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