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-   -   Canon: Low-light action (http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644950)

Sika 05-08-2017 08:49 AM

Canon: Low-light action
 
Which Canon body under $2000 is the BEST for shooting action and sports in low light? I need a camera capable of shooting well at high ISOs.
The 7D Mark II 10 fps continuous shooting speed and 65-point AF system make it seem like the best choice but someone told me they thought the 70D was better for sports. Then someone else said a full frame was best for anything low light but I really can't spend that much on a new 5D. I noticed you can pick up an older model for under $1000 on Amazon.

Sika 05-08-2017 08:55 AM

By the way, I currently shoot with a 60D, which I love...but I have to keep the ISO around 1600 or the image quality suffers greatly.

grinningmule 05-08-2017 08:59 AM

The 7D Mark II has my vote. I have the original 7D and it is still a great camera but the Mark II is head and shoulders above it.

texas shag 05-08-2017 09:09 AM

I think the 7D Mark II is the best option for outdoors/sports (it is what I have for the application). I like the added "built-in zoom" a crop frame camera gives for outdoors and sports versus a full frame camera. The 7D has an magnesium alloy body versus polymer body of the 70D, making it more rugged and also considerably more waterproof. Also, the 7D has a higher ISO rate 16,000 versus 12,800 of the 70D, which helps in low light as you well know. You have already researched the FPS rate and the AF, so I wont expound too much on that. I think that if you are shooting fast moving subjects, shooting with long lenses or shooting in harsh weather then the 7D Mk II is a worthy step up from the 70D.


BTW, I think the Mark 5 and Mark 1 (full frame cameras) shine in a studio setting personally, but wouldn't buy one for exclusively shooting in low light with moving subject matter. Good luck in your decision!

Bill M 05-08-2017 09:19 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Courtney the 7DmkII is a better sports camera than the 70D. I have taken some high ISO shots with the 7D but you have to do certain things to achieve good shots. I'll post a shot at 3200 with it below.

I recently bought a 6D FF that I got in a bundle for a steal. I can give more info if interested. I've been happy with it's high ISO up to 3200 and just haven't tried it much above that. The drawback of the 6D is limited focus point array, max 1/4000 sec shutter speed and 4.5 fps. The only way to match the 7D fps in a FF is with a 1Dx. Remember that certain lenses you own may not work with FF also. As you probably noticed I've sold all of the lenses I originally bought to use with the 60D.

You might consider looking at Greentoe.com. Greentoe thread I've bought 2 items from them recently with decent discounts over other outlets. You make offers to them and they send them to outlets they have. I'm going to leave this here if you might want to look into it. http://gtoe.me/Vbwc/lPh78GtFPB

Here is the shot I referred to above. If you want to discuss let me know.

Attachment 853286

WhiplashTX 05-08-2017 09:51 AM

Bill summed it up pretty well. I went from the 7D to the 6D also and I shoot at 6400 ISO and even 12800 is still usable. I shoot mainly wildlife and will have to admit it's harder getting good sports shots with the 6D vs the 7D. The 7D II is Canon's top of the line APSC camera and was designed for sports shooting and really has no peer in the Canon APSC line. I haven't used a Mark II yet and it's supposed to be better but my old 7D was noisy at 3200. You might consider the 5D III but it just above your cutoff point and if you don't already have the full frame lens to support it your really going to be spending some money.

It would help if you described what kind of sports shots you are taking and what the lighting conditions are. Also, if your not using at least a 4.0 lens your just not going to be happy no matter what camera you use.

WhiplashTX 05-08-2017 10:07 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a sports shot from the 6D at 8000 ISO 1/500 200mm F4. Really needed a faster shutter speed but I was out of light.

Sika 05-08-2017 10:11 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Sounds like the 7D II is the way to go.

Here is an image I shot last weekend with the 60D and you can see why I need to upgrade for these kinds of shoots. A little noise is better than a blurred image but I'm not happy with this amount of noise.

/4.0 160.0 mm 1/1250 ISO 2000

Attachment 853306

wsteffen 05-08-2017 10:18 AM

I've looked at the new 80d and it has some nice features. I have taken a lot of night baseball pics with my T1i and a Sigma 70 - 200 f2.8 lens with good results using shudder priority at 1600 iso. I shoot everything in the RAW format and can do a lot of adjustments on the pc. Over the years, I've learned that it has more to do with the actual camera setting than it does with the camera.

Good luck in your search for the right camera. I just bought a Canon SX60HS and am having a lot of fun learning it's capabilities.

Sika 05-08-2017 11:03 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wsteffen (Post 12411139)
I have taken a lot of night baseball pics with my T1i and a Sigma 70 - 200 f2.8 lens with good results using shudder priority at 1600 iso. I shoot everything in the RAW format and can do a lot of adjustments on the pc. Over the years, I've learned that it has more to do with the actual camera setting than it does with the camera.

Here's another one. All of these were shot with the 70-200 2.8L.
Other than shooting in raw, any suggestions on camera settings for better results?

ƒ/4.0 135.0 mm 1/1000 ISO 2000

Attachment 853324

Bill M 05-08-2017 11:31 AM

Set The C mode with f4.0, 1/1600, Auto ISO, +1 exposure. You will be exposing to the right. Explained here in case you're not familiar with it. Experiment with it. The eagle pic above was shot using the ETTR method I have set up in one of my custom settings. The 7DmkII has 3 customs.

Shane 05-08-2017 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sika (Post 12411239)
Here's another one. All of these were shot with the 70-200 2.8L.
Other than shooting in raw, any suggestions on camera settings for better results?

ƒ/4.0 135.0 mm 1/1000 ISO 2000

Attachment 853324

Go to f/2.8, and then you can get the same shutter speed at ISO 1000 (less noise).

Is this photo processed at all? It looks pretty flat, like it's straight out of the camera. Do you have Lightroom? If not, you really should get it. The noise reduction in Lr works very well. Add in some contrast, saturation, sharpening and a few other little tweaks, and that photo would be sharper and pop a little more.

Sika 05-08-2017 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane (Post 12411369)
Go to f/2.8, and then you can get the same shutter speed at ISO 1000 (less noise).

Is this photo processed at all? It looks pretty flat, like it's straight out of the camera. Do you have Lightroom? If not, you really should get it. The noise reduction in Lr works very well. Add in some contrast, saturation, sharpening and a few other little tweaks, and that photo would be sharper and pop a little more.

Adjusted brightness, contrast, color and used sharpening filter with PS CS4. No noise reduction used.

Sika 05-08-2017 12:17 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is one SOC, no processing at all. I have over 150 to process to I'm not spending too much time on each. The shadows and dust certainly make things interesting. :rolleyes:

Attachment 853335

Bill M 05-08-2017 12:27 PM

Never saw it mentioned or missed it. Were these shot in RAW or jpeg?

dagdog 05-08-2017 12:29 PM

Low light requires higher ISO's/faster lens. Higher ISO setting usually result in more noise in your photos. Noise equates to grainy photos. Today's cameras do a wonderful job of noise reduction at the higher ISO settings. I think you are better off investing in quality lenses instead of buying cameras. Canon/Nikon etc have used the same lens mounts for decades. I have Nikor lenses that are 20 to 30 years old that I still use today. They don't go out of favor and they maintain their value.

Digital Camera bodies are like any other electronic device. Almost obsolete the day you buy them. And they depreciate in value very fast. I purchased a Nikon D200 several years ago for $1250.00. On Ebay today they go for $125.00. The 70-200mm f2.8 lens still sells for $1200.00-$1300.00.

The bones of the camera system are the lenses.

Shane 05-08-2017 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sika (Post 12411398)
Here is one SOC, no processing at all. I have over 150 to process to I'm not spending too much time on each. The shadows and dust certainly make things interesting. :rolleyes:

Attachment 853335

Yep. Dust makes it interesting for sure. The advantage that Lr has over Ps is batch processing. You can spend a little extra time on 1 photo in a series to really dial it in, and then you can apply those same settings to the rest of the series with just a couple of mouse clicks. Saves a lot of time over doing them all one at a time. Lr also has a slider called Dehaze. It works wonders with foggy/hazy/dusty situations like that.

crawdaddct 05-08-2017 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagdog (Post 12411430)
Low light requires higher ISO's/faster lens. Higher ISO setting usually result in more noise in your photos. Noise equates to grainy photos. Today's cameras do a wonderful job of noise reduction at the higher ISO settings. I think you are better off investing in quality lenses instead of buying cameras. Canon/Nikon etc have used the same lens mounts for decades. I have Nikor lenses that are 20 to 30 years old that I still use today. They don't go out of favor and they maintain their value.

Digital Camera bodies are like any other electronic device. Almost obsolete the day you buy them. And they depreciate in value very fast. I purchased a Nikon D200 several years ago for $1250.00. On Ebay today they go for $125.00. The 70-200mm f2.8 lens still sells for $1200.00-$1300.00.

The bones of the camera system are the lenses.

X2. Low light and action, need better lens. Cameras can only do so much. I personally don't like altered photos, so manipulation after the shot is too late. I do it if needed, but like natural.

cfortner 05-08-2017 01:45 PM

You may get less noise by pushing the iso up to 2500 instead of 2000. I've done the tests on my 7D and do get less noise by using ISO multiples of 160. MagicLantern has a decent explanation of how this works here:

http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/I...he_best_ISO.3F

Sika 05-08-2017 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagdog (Post 12411430)
Low light requires higher ISO's/faster lens. Higher ISO setting usually result in more noise in your photos. Noise equates to grainy photos. Today's cameras do a wonderful job of noise reduction at the higher ISO settings. I think you are better off investing in quality lenses instead of buying cameras. Canon/Nikon etc have used the same lens mounts for decades. I have Nikor lenses that are 20 to 30 years old that I still use today. They don't go out of favor and they maintain their value.

Digital Camera bodies are like any other electronic device. Almost obsolete the day you buy them. And they depreciate in value very fast. I purchased a Nikon D200 several years ago for $1250.00. On Ebay today they go for $125.00. The 70-200mm f2.8 lens still sells for $1200.00-$1300.00.

The bones of the camera system are the lenses.

Not a newbie and I know all about investing in good glass. As stated, those pics were shot with the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS.
This is the first shoot I've ever done where I was genuinely unhappy with the amount of noise but I'm also used to shooting in better light.

Sika 05-08-2017 02:35 PM

Thanks for the suggestion on Lightroom. I think I downloaded a trial once. I can't remember if I ever used it. I'll look in to it.

Shane 05-08-2017 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sika (Post 12411736)
Thanks for the suggestion on Lightroom. I think I downloaded a trial once. I can't remember if I ever used it. I'll look in to it.

If you'd like to, you can email me one of your original photos and I'll run it through Lr to see what it could do. shanejennings 'at' suddenlink.net

Sika 05-08-2017 03:28 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I went back and looked at the settings and exif data on my last bay pen shoot and I used the same settings. The Exif data is almost identical but my last batch of images were much, much clearer. I can't figure out why my results were not better.
Guess you guys have convinced me, it's the not the camera this time :)

Same camera and lens. The differences in quality between the last shoot and this one are crazy!

ƒ/4.5 175.0 mm 1/1000 ISO 1250

Attachment 853362

ƒ/5.0 145.0 mm 1/1600 ISO 2000

Attachment 853363

Shane 05-08-2017 04:13 PM

Your older pics look like you had the sun at your back. The more recent ones appear to be backlit. You'll have more problems with haziness in the dust when the sun is in front of you. Maybe that was the difference? The more recent shots still look like they could use more contrast, sharpening and saturation to me though.

One other thought... What autofocus setting were you using on each of these shoots? The first ones look sharper than the more recent ones. I wonder if you were using AI Servo in the earlier shots and One Shot auto focus in the more recent pics??

Sika 05-08-2017 04:30 PM

Sort of my thinking on the lighting, Shane. I switch between AI Servo and One Shot. The only thing I did differently was play with the drive mode a little bit. I don't normally shoot in high speed continuous but I did this past weekend.

Shane 05-08-2017 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sika (Post 12411972)
Sort of my thinking on the lighting, Shane. I switch between AI Servo and One Shot. The only thing I did differently was play with the drive mode a little bit. I don't normally shoot in high speed continuous but I did this past weekend.

Fast continuous shooting with One Shot AF and moving targets doesn't work well. Maybe that was the issue. AI Servo tracks moving subjects better. Another thing that really helps in sports photography or hog dog photography with moving critters is back button focus. That combined with AI Servo will keep focus on your subjects a lot better than other methods.

Snakelover 05-09-2017 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane (Post 12411934)
Your older pics look like you had the sun at your back. The more recent ones appear to be backlit. You'll have more problems with haziness in the dust when the sun is in front of you. Maybe that was the difference?

I think that's a lot of it. Also relatively small differences in the amount of moisture content in the dirt may may make big differences in the amount of airborne dust. In the older photos, the dogs and hogs are throwing clods up into the air.

Casey 05-09-2017 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sika (Post 12411398)
Here is one SOC, no processing at all. I have over 150 to process to I'm not spending too much time on each. The shadows and dust certainly make things interesting. :rolleyes:

Attachment 853335

I think there are a couple issues on this one. Lighting and focus. It almost appears that the foreground is in better focus. But, it's hard to determine on this small sample. One thing is certain, Lightroom can make up for some of your less than ideal conditions.

Sika 05-09-2017 11:19 AM

Guess I'll put off a camera upgrade for now. It sounds like some settings adjustments would have helped this time.

Here is the entire set of images on Flickr if anyone is interested.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lacydo...57680396246224


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Vulcanman 08-01-2017 03:21 PM

7D mkII has been good for me. Fast and good in low light.
I may have mine for sale soon.

Swampa 08-04-2017 10:58 PM

I'm no help on the camera stuff, just curious where the hog dog event was taking place. My boys would eat that up!


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