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View Full Version : Whats the law on felon's and muzzleloaders?


kurt68
01-20-2010, 09:32 AM
From TPWD:

Possession of firearms by felons: A convicted felon, regardless of where the conviction occurred, may not possess or use a firearm (as defined by Penal Code, 46.01) to hunt in this state. Under Penal Code, 46.01, a muzzleloading firearm is lawful if it is an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899 or a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899 that does not use rimfire or centerfire ammunition.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/hunt/means/


So can a felon go buy a Thompson off the shelf at Gander Mountain and legally hunt deer with it? Or does it have to be made before 1899?

oneforthewall
01-20-2010, 09:39 AM
You could probably get away with purchasing a TC Triumph as muzzleloader sales are not subject to the 4473 form or NICS background check. An Encore would be as it has the capability to shoot cenerfire and rimfire ammo. As far a legality of ownership you will be limited to the old style hawken rifles. That is the way I read it.

mossyhorn
01-20-2010, 09:43 AM
A felon can not have a rile , pistol or shot gun

BTLowry
01-20-2010, 09:49 AM
I think black powder / muzzle loaders are OK per the law but I think it comes down to a decision by the parole/probation officer in each case

There was a post on here before about a guy not being allowed to even hunt with a bow by his supervising officer for a period of time

If I was a convicted felon I would be getting WRITTEN permission from someone before I took a chance of going to prison for being in possesion of any type of firearm/weapon

k9trainer
01-20-2010, 10:51 AM
It says right there it has to be manufactured before or be a replica of one manufactured before 1899, didn't realize TC were replicas

k9trainer
01-20-2010, 10:52 AM
A felon can not have a rile , pistol or shot gun

Outside his residence

Txjourneyman
01-20-2010, 11:33 AM
I asked my local GW. I had to because of a mistake I made during my mis-spent youth. He told me an inline will get me in prison. I have to use a sidelock. Percussion or flintlock are the only legal options. That is only for Texas. some states don't allow any BP guns, and there are some that don't even allow bowhunting for convicted felons.

trailboss
01-20-2010, 12:21 PM
A felon can not have a rile , pistol or shot gun

He/she can inside his/her residence after 5 years.

Trailboss

CaptJack
01-20-2010, 12:27 PM
had a friend who went through this
in the end it was up to the judge that sentenced his probation, after his felony
the judge told him no black powder
but he was allowed to bowhunt

DWI Lawyer
01-20-2010, 12:31 PM
It has to be a replica of one manufactured before 1899. So the modern muzzleloaders would be illegal for a felon to posess.

Mike
01-20-2010, 12:54 PM
See below, Here is a story regarding this topic just last week here in Orange. The Feds went after the weapons charge as there were no drugs present. Her original Felony was back in 1995 so that was 14 years ago. I have never heard of the "after 5 year clause".

A 50-year-old Orange woman has pleaded guilty to firearms violations in the Eastern District of Texas. SHIRLEY ANNETTE McMILLAN pleaded guilty to being a felon in possession of a firearm Friday before U.S. District Judge Earl S. Hines. According to information presented in court, on Feb. 27, 2009, law enforcement officers responded to a report that McMillan was selling prescription drugs from her home on Tulane Road. McMillan consented to a search of her residence by Orange County Constable Robert Strause, during which Strause recovered a loaded pistol hidden underneath a pillow. Further investigation revealed that McMillan had previously been convicted of assault with a deadly weapon in 1995 in Orange County, Texas, and as a convicted felon is prohibited by federal law from owning or possessing firearms or ammunition. A federal grand jury returned an indictment on Apr. 15, 2009, charging McMillan with federal firearms violations. McMillan faces up to 10 years in federal prison at sentencing. A sentencing date has not been set. This case is being investigated by the Orange County Constable's Office and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives and prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorney Antonetta Stancu.

A local car dealership owner, also in in the gun market was the one caught in Mexico with a few loose .22 and 30.06 shells in his Suburban several years back and after the "prisoner exchange" he was granted 6 months to sell or distribute his inventory and personal collection of weapons and ammo. He was held to Mexican law and classified as a Felon in the states. He is/was a very avid hunter and still does with a Muzzeloader. If it would have been 5 years, he would have just given them all away to relatives/friends in a trust and then recouped them after the period lapsed.

He had a big South Texas ranch that he owned as well so that would have qualified him to be in possession on hus personal property.

Olphart
01-20-2010, 01:24 PM
The above posting by Mike is regarding federal law.

Here is the Texas Penal Code law on this subject, along with the definition of a "firearm" and exclusion.

Sec. 46.04. UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM. (a) A person who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he possesses a firearm:
(1) after conviction and before the fifth anniversary of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony or the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is later; or
(2) after the period described by Subdivision (1), at any location other than the premises at which the person lives.
(b) A person who has been convicted of an offense under Section 22.01, punishable as a Class A misdemeanor and involving a member of the person's family or household, commits an offense if the person possesses a firearm before the fifth anniversary of the later of:
(1) the date of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the misdemeanor; or
(2) the date of the person's release from community supervision following conviction of the misdemeanor.
(c) A person, other than a peace officer, as defined by Section 1.07, actively engaged in employment as a sworn, full-time paid employee of a state agency or political subdivision, who is subject to an order issued under Section 6.504 or Chapter 85, Family Code, under Article 17.292 or Chapter 7A, Code of Criminal Procedure, or by another jurisdiction as provided by Chapter 88, Family Code, commits an offense if the person possesses a firearm after receiving notice of the order and before expiration of the order.
(d) In this section, "family," "household," and "member of a household" have the meanings assigned by Chapter 71, Family Code.
(e) An offense under Subsection (a) is a felony of the third degree. An offense under Subsection (b) or (c) is a Class A misdemeanor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Renumbered from Penal Code Sec. 46.05 and amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994. Amended by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 23, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 836, Sec. 4, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.


(3) "Firearm" means any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is:
(A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
(B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition.

Tommyh
01-20-2010, 01:31 PM
Sow Bows and arrows sound legal according to that definition

El Coyote
01-20-2010, 01:41 PM
what about after it is expunged from your record?

ekhunter
01-20-2010, 01:44 PM
He/she can inside his/her residence after 5 years.

Trailboss

federal law overrides that. my brother is an fbi agent and he called the us attourney in tarrant county, because i a am felon.

mikep453
01-20-2010, 01:57 PM
what about after it is expunged from your record?

I don't think that a feloney can be expunged from your record unless it occured when you are a juvenile and you are convicted as a juvenile.

Jesse
01-20-2010, 03:39 PM
actually a felony can be set aside in Texas and gun rights restored depending on the situation. last time I saw a thread on this subject I researched out of curiosity and came across recordgone.com. very interesting reading and good prices for some of you out their that need a second chance on life

blessings

Txjourneyman
01-20-2010, 03:46 PM
federal law overrides that. my brother is an fbi agent and he called the us attourney in tarrant county, because i a am felon.

This is true, federal law over rides local. However the feds are unlikely to persue a conviction unless it is related to another case such as the woman from Orange, a suspected drug dealer.

BigPigSticker
01-20-2010, 03:55 PM
bow hunting is legal. the only way that you can shoot a muzzleloader legally is if it is flint lock ignited. no percussion caps or 209 primed weapons.

Txjourneyman
01-20-2010, 03:59 PM
bow hunting is legal. the only way that you can shoot a muzzleloader legally is if it is flint lock ignited. no percussion caps or 209 primed weapons.

I disagree. percussion caps are not centerfire or rimfire and therefore legal. That is how I was told by my local GW and the one in my lease county.

SOLID EAGLE
01-20-2010, 04:00 PM
Try this & good luck. http://www.recordgone.com/restore_gun_rights_texas.htm

Txjourneyman
01-20-2010, 04:04 PM
Try this & good luck. http://www.recordgone.com/restore_gun_rights_texas.htm

Not eligible. But thanks anyway. I tried their test and it won't work for me. Only for people who were put on probation. I had to go away for a few years.

chrisk
01-20-2010, 04:24 PM
We call it hunting Dukes and Hazard style up here in Indiana. We are restricted as much on what type of muzzleloader as long you do not have to have a background check and with an Encore I believe you have one due to it being able to shoot something other than a muzzleloaded projectile. Since during our firearm season we use shotguns or muzzleloaders anyway. It isn't really to much of a handicap.
Chris Kiefner

PEC
01-20-2010, 05:04 PM
I have close contact with someone who has a felony conviction and they will not even allow him to own a crossbow.

G MONEY
01-20-2010, 07:09 PM
So it sounds like it must be a replica of a muzzleloader pre 1899 in order for a felon to own or use one. By that same theory, it must also be a flintlock.

Is this correct?

buck_wild
01-20-2010, 10:28 PM
I'm pretty sure the federal law over rides that state law about AFTER 5 yrs. In my business we see federal prosecutions for possing firearms with no regard to in a residence after 5 yrs. Not sure why the state would have law like that when federal law doesn't allow.
Bows and crossbows are only restricted by probation or parole supervisions and not the felony conviction itself.

DRT
01-20-2010, 10:43 PM
So it sounds like it must be a replica of a muzzleloader pre 1899 in order for a felon to own or use one. By that same theory, it must also be a flintlock.

Is this correct?

No, side lock precussions were used long before 1899. Heck, so were rim and center fire weapons.

tvc184
01-20-2010, 10:59 PM
I'm pretty sure the federal law over rides that state law about AFTER 5 yrs. In my business we see federal prosecutions for possing firearms with no regard to in a residence after 5 yrs. Not sure why the state would have law like that when federal law doesn't allow.
Bows and crossbows are only restricted by probation or parole supervisions and not the felony conviction itself.

It is according to how you define "overrides".

In about 99% of cases neither state law or federal law overrides the other. They are both independent government entities and each independently has a right to makes its own laws. Both have the right of prosecution independent of the other.

Texas law says that you cannot have a firearm until five years after you have completed your service whether jail time, parole or probation. Federal law starts the day you were convicted and has no time frame.

Texas can prosecute a felon in possession for five years independent of federal law and federal law can prosecute a felon in possession for an unlimited time frame independent of Texas law.

Each has its own independent right to prosecute and being cleared of charges by one does not prohibit the other from filing charges for the exact same offense with the exact same evidence by the other without invoking the 5th Amendment double jeopardy clause.

johnsonzl
01-20-2010, 10:59 PM
You can get a Hawkins kit from cabelas and there pretty accurate for 100 yard shots they just wont hold a candle to a modern in line especially when it comes to bad weather.

BigPigSticker
01-22-2010, 11:56 AM
I disagree. percussion caps are not centerfire or rimfire and therefore legal. That is how I was told by my local GW and the one in my lease county.

I understand your logic, this is just what was told to a friend of mine by the local game warden.